Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Air-cooled vs Water-cooled Automatic Differences?
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
metropoj
Samba Member


Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343

metropoj is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm    Post subject: Air-cooled vs Water-cooled Automatic Differences? Reply with quote

So I have run across a nice clean functional Air Cooled Automatic. Further reading, I see Go Westy and others advertise selling 83-91 Automatics only and forfeit the core if you try to return an air cooled one.

Aside from I would assume the external cooler ports, what is the big difference between the 2? Are the internals useable, swappable ?

I see a few different part numbers in the Valve body and case numbers, the Governor looks to be the larger cover style but what makes the AC Auto not rebuildable or not core worthy ?

Just curious.... Thanks ...

JMM.
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50254

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

There were two different automatics used on the Bays, either an 003 (early) or a 010/090 (later) Don't know the difference between the Bus 010/090 and the Vanagon one. Yes the governors change somewhere over the years and maybe the final gearing does as well. There would be a change in the WBXer AT case for ATF cooling and a high rpm stall speed converter for later Vanagons as well, but otherwise I don't know what changes there were.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

Kam has gathered some excellent information and posted it on her site.

Follow the link........

http://oldbluesblog.com/files/VanagonTransSpecs.pdf

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
metropoj
Samba Member


Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343

metropoj is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

Thanks dj for pointing us here and thanks Kamz for collecting.

I have uploaded this section from Kams collection to keep the data in one place. Kamz, if you are ok with that. If not, I can remove ...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.


Last edited by metropoj on Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

The early Vanagon's pretty much ran the Late Bays drive train.

Did they re-gear for the increased weight?

I don't know.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jlrftype7
Samba Member


Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3548
Location: Chicago
jlrftype7 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

metropoj wrote:
Thanks dj for pointing us here and thanks Kamz for collecting.

I see these are no relation to the 70's Bus auto's as well. It appears they started in 79 as the Bay's were finishing up here in NA at least.

I have uploaded this section from Kams collection to keep the data in one place. Kamz, if you are ok with that. If not, I can remove ...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Hmm, while it won't matter for your questions, that chart you posted isn't show how far back the 010 goes in the Bays. I think '76 is the first year of the 010 versus the 003 with its Vacuum Modulator in the Bay Buses, and I've seen pictures of the filter/screen in the early version 010 trans being shaped differently than what you would find in the later Vanagons.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

Kam only focused on gathering Vanagon information I'm sure.

I bet with a bit of "googlefoo" you could find out details about the use of Automatic transmissions in Bay Busses.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
metropoj
Samba Member


Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343

metropoj is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

I've removed my comments about the use in bays as I am not sure how far back they go.

My 77 Bay auto got a new filter and Synthetic fluid change then a ton of miles before other issues pulled it off the road. It could have been one of these ... it gave me no issues at all so we were not very intimate Smile ...

It'll be interesting to do some comparisons when I pick it up and start poking around to see what I find ...
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jlrftype7
Samba Member


Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3548
Location: Chicago
jlrftype7 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? Reply with quote

metropoj wrote:
I've removed my comments about the use in bays as I am not sure how far back they go.

My 77 Bay auto got a new filter and Synthetic fluid change then a ton of miles before other issues pulled it off the road. It could have been one of these ... it gave me no issues at all so we were not very intimate Smile ...

It'll be interesting to do some comparisons when I pick it up and start poking around to see what I find ...
Oh, no need to edit anything. I was just looking at the chart you posted and thinking out loud. Smile

The Bentley Manual notes the differences to some degree between the versions of the 010, the parking pawl linkage shows some changes through the years for instance.
GoWesty is generally down on the early Vanagons, no matter what engine is attached to the Automatic... Razz
My personal experience with a Air Cooled Vanagon that had the Auto was a shop truck at my first shop job. Faster than my 1968 Westy with its Type 1 engine, but slower than my '84 Vanagon, which also has the automatic.
In the 80's, I spent way,way,more time replacing Autos in Audis' than the VW Jettas and Rabbits. At the shop I was at, we didn't rebuild them, just did an exchange with rebuilt units, so it took years till I was actually going into one, with the help of folks here at Samba.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.