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metropoj Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm Post subject: Air-cooled vs Water-cooled Automatic Differences? |
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So I have run across a nice clean functional Air Cooled Automatic. Further reading, I see Go Westy and others advertise selling 83-91 Automatics only and forfeit the core if you try to return an air cooled one.
Aside from I would assume the external cooler ports, what is the big difference between the 2? Are the internals useable, swappable ?
I see a few different part numbers in the Valve body and case numbers, the Governor looks to be the larger cover style but what makes the AC Auto not rebuildable or not core worthy ?
Just curious.... Thanks ...
JMM. _________________ John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? |
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There were two different automatics used on the Bays, either an 003 (early) or a 010/090 (later) Don't know the difference between the Bus 010/090 and the Vanagon one. Yes the governors change somewhere over the years and maybe the final gearing does as well. There would be a change in the WBXer AT case for ATF cooling and a high rpm stall speed converter for later Vanagons as well, but otherwise I don't know what changes there were. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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metropoj Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? |
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Thanks dj for pointing us here and thanks Kamz for collecting.
I have uploaded this section from Kams collection to keep the data in one place. Kamz, if you are ok with that. If not, I can remove ...
_________________ John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.
Last edited by metropoj on Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? |
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metropoj wrote: |
Thanks dj for pointing us here and thanks Kamz for collecting.
I see these are no relation to the 70's Bus auto's as well. It appears they started in 79 as the Bay's were finishing up here in NA at least.
I have uploaded this section from Kams collection to keep the data in one place. Kamz, if you are ok with that. If not, I can remove ...
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Hmm, while it won't matter for your questions, that chart you posted isn't show how far back the 010 goes in the Bays. I think '76 is the first year of the 010 versus the 003 with its Vacuum Modulator in the Bay Buses, and I've seen pictures of the filter/screen in the early version 010 trans being shaped differently than what you would find in the later Vanagons. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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metropoj Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? |
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I've removed my comments about the use in bays as I am not sure how far back they go.
My 77 Bay auto got a new filter and Synthetic fluid change then a ton of miles before other issues pulled it off the road. It could have been one of these ... it gave me no issues at all so we were not very intimate ...
It'll be interesting to do some comparisons when I pick it up and start poking around to see what I find ... _________________ John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy. |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Air cooled vs Water cooled Automatic Differences ? |
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metropoj wrote: |
I've removed my comments about the use in bays as I am not sure how far back they go.
My 77 Bay auto got a new filter and Synthetic fluid change then a ton of miles before other issues pulled it off the road. It could have been one of these ... it gave me no issues at all so we were not very intimate ...
It'll be interesting to do some comparisons when I pick it up and start poking around to see what I find ... |
Oh, no need to edit anything. I was just looking at the chart you posted and thinking out loud.
The Bentley Manual notes the differences to some degree between the versions of the 010, the parking pawl linkage shows some changes through the years for instance.
GoWesty is generally down on the early Vanagons, no matter what engine is attached to the Automatic...
My personal experience with a Air Cooled Vanagon that had the Auto was a shop truck at my first shop job. Faster than my 1968 Westy with its Type 1 engine, but slower than my '84 Vanagon, which also has the automatic.
In the 80's, I spent way,way,more time replacing Autos in Audis' than the VW Jettas and Rabbits. At the shop I was at, we didn't rebuild them, just did an exchange with rebuilt units, so it took years till I was actually going into one, with the help of folks here at Samba. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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