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It Blows Oil
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Ulu
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

So far this little '72 boxermotor still rips. I have put a whole 10 miles on it last week, just tuning. (LOL too much rain...)

Oil pressure seemed OK last year. Not too high, maybe 20psi cold...It was old so I changed it, but it was lo miles. Just sat for over a year, so stale.

Now with fresh 10w-30 the gage went to 40 at cold hi-idle! Didn't drop much, but I still had the idle too high.

Then I ran it and I think the relief valve never opened. Pressure shot up and Crap! I blew out the aftermarket pressure sender. ;(

Now I need two senders.

See, the oil temp gage always reads zero. Wiring is A-OK. It's supposed to have a 100 ohm sender and mine is 16.4k !

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That sender is plugged in the oil port below the distributor. VW normally has a slotted screw plug there IIRC. I haven't built a VW since 1979. I am thinking that's the bypass spring port, and maybe the temp sender is mashed up into the oil plunger? Jacking pressure and shorting the sender?

The valve below the cooler still has the OEM plug. Might be stuck too so I will drop both plungers.

Gravity be willing. If they are really stuck, I might need to "extract" them.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

I ran my temp sender in that location, it worked pretty well.
I don't know if that is the ideal location for a pressure sender.

My pressure sender was in the normal location, to the left of the distributor.
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Ulu
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Sorry for the confusion. My pressure sender is on top. Wink
You can just see the drippy booger there on the left.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Oil in my bug takes forever to warm up, at least five miles
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Lingwendil
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Mine doesn't go over 120 degrees for maybe like 10-15 minutes on the highway.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

I got her hot enough twice but the gage did not move.

I grounded the sender wire and it moved then.

My Sender tests bad at 16.4k ohms. Practically infinity because it is supposed to be 100 ohms.

New senders are about $38 each from Classic Instruments, plus shipping coast to coast.

But they’re just buying them from someone else, and I need to figure out who because it could be less than half the price. I was thinking that traditionally the senders go for about 10 or $12.
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Ulu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

By the way guys, if you take that 10 miles is not enough to get a Volkswagen hot, I did it twice in half that. All you Gotta do is run it up to the red line in every gear and do burnouts in every corner.

Also I don’t have any ventilation at the top of my engine compartment. Airflow doesn’t go through there too well unless I’m moving. I’m afraid that getting the engine hot in this car will not be a challenge.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

What brand gauge? Many use a VDO sender
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Classic Instruments
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Is it this part? Sure looks like it.

https://shop.classicinstruments.com/sn28a
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Ulu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Oh thank you.

I had no problem finding those parts. I just don’t want to pay $38 plus shipping from New York to California for a $10 part. Twice, since I need both senders.

I’m sure the exact parts are sitting in a warehouse in Fresno California 5 miles from me. I just got to figure out the manufacturers part numbers or where they sourced it.

I’m going to go take this stuff apart so, I can check the oil pressure relief springs and plungers. There are some numbers but I can’t read them right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Classic Instruments are made right here in Boyne City Michigan,, I'm on the Airport 'drag strip' in that pic (Discreet Roll cage) their building is on the main street coming into town Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

madmike wrote:
Classic Instruments are made right here in Boyne City Michigan,, I'm on the Airport 'drag strip' in that pic (Discreet Roll cage) their building is on the main street coming into town Wink


If you check their website it only says that the gages are made in Michigan.

I believe they are buying & shipping senders from someone on the coast. Echlin in New York maybe? I have no idea but my natural curiosity is on full alert.

I looked at some Auto Meter brand senders on a rack yesterday at the Volkswagen shop and they look identical. I did not get to unpack them and look at the manufacturers markings. Those were $50+ tax each, so no joy.

I don’t need the Volkswagen adapter, since I already have it. I just need the sender that fits regular NPT. That adapter is the only thing special about the Volkswagen sender. If they had actually made a special one just for Volkswagens it wouldn’t need an adapter.

EDIT…..I find Echlin is in So Carolina now. Must be those New York taxes.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Hmmm… Maybe from the coast of a different country…?
The markings read: MEX 17/4

10,470 ohms at room temperature.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This adapter was difficult to R&R because the hex is very thin, and it is recessed into the block a little bit on one side. I removed it very carefully with a thin 7/8” tappet wrench. I “made” a thin socket for installation. Drill motor, old socket, plus bench grinder=thin socket.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Overall it is 2.2”.
Marked: 12V 334J

334J must be the manufacturers part number and I will try and look this up later.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There was a nasty rust pit on the piston but I was able to wiggle it out of the board with a screwdriver and I cleaned it up nice with a jewelers file and Scotchbrite.

The spring is exactly the same length and tension as a new spring that I have to compare with. I thought I was getting too much oil pressure and I tested both of the springs and they are identical so I cleaned mine up and put it back in.

When I tested the resistance at room temperature it read 16.4K That seemed very high to me but I decided to test this and I know it’s been sitting a long long time so this is maybe a low time bit that got sticky from sitting.

So I checked the resistance as I heated this up with a barbecue lighter. When it was hot enough to boil water off the tip my readings had come down below 200 ohms, and as I continue to heat it it dropped to 100 ohms and below at which point I quit. This should represent 320°F but my infrared gauge doesn’t go that high.

So then I cooled it back down to room temperature and watched the resistance rise rapidly, & finally I put it in the freezer.

When it had achieved freezer temperatures the resistance was up to 20 K.

Here’s the funny part. I let it cool back down to room temperature and now it only read about 10.47K. I heat cycled that again with the barbecue lighter and it’s now still reading 10.5 K, so I reinstalled it.

I tested the gauge and it works OK so we’ll see what happens when I run the car. Also because I had so much difficulty extracting that adapter I put an extra gasket on it this time. That cuts about 1 mm from the spring so my oil pressure should be very slightly lower.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

A little more research shows this is the same style of markings on all of Stuart Warners senders. I found one that goes to 280 but my gauge goes to 320 so it’s possible I got to keep looking.

EDIT, I found the SW sender for $13 +shipping online. It is not identical.

But that's a more reasonable price for sure.

I drove the SS today but it was very cold out. The temp gage never moved off the peg.

But when I got back I put my finger on the sensor, and it wasn't over 120F. The engine wasn't too warm there.

I have read this isn't the best place for the sender. I'll know more when the weather warms.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

No more oil leaks now.

I dropped the relief spring and plunger, and the plunger was half stuck. After I cleaned it up and tightened the stud on the pressure sender, cold oil pressure drops quickly from 40 to a more normal 32 psi.

I still haven’t run this engine until it’s good and hot yet. Without the thermostatic flappers it’s not easy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

I don't run'flappers' ether Wink Laughing but like I said it takes forever for oil temp gauge to show temps, I live 5 miles from our town, I just cruise just above idle till the gauge starts to move Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: It Blows Oil Reply with quote

Well I got it to leak again. It's time to retorque the heads. I got top end seepage.

Since I am currently taking the body off to re-work the frame, I will go through the engine before I remount the fine vintage fake-antique fiberglasswork.
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