Questions

[rosevillain]

Friend had a baja for sale, daughter saw it, fell in love...We have a baja now.

It's a mis-match of fugly. Bus rear, ball-joint front, single port.

Some questions-

Why is the front and rear suspension so tight? Like, I can't jump on the rear bumper and move this thing without the spring plates twisting (?). The front is a little better, but not much. Even after removing shocks. I removed the torsion bars from the rear and replaced them with some known stock ones. Haven't fully reassembled it yet, see the next question. The ones that came out were orange, but only 21 or 22mm. Is the bus rear going to grenade and kill her or leave her stranded? 31" tires in the rear.

This car had early bug brake shoes in the rear. It had bus drums and bus bearing caps, (I don't know about backing plates, they didn't have numbers) the shoes should be bus too, right? I know anything is possible, but is there a reason besides dumb that it would have bug shoes? Car has EMPI discs in the front and wouldn't stop very well. I'm hoping that the wider and longer bus shoes fix this. Are EMPI discs and bus rears adequate to keep her alive?

The kid found a 4-pt show cage like 6 hours away, loaded up, and brought it home herself (a little help from boyfriend, but not much). Is she going to bang her head on the mid (front) hoop and die?

Have you seen the 4-pt retractable harnesses from Seatbelt Planet? Keep her from dying?

She should be using this for real light trail goofing off, and to look cool on the road. She fancies trips to Sand Mountain, but knows that this probably isn't the vehicle for that.

Anything else I should know? Besides that the oil cooler lines are begging to get snagged by an errant branch, blow oil all over Folsom Lake, cause the engine to seize, the car to roll, smash the show bar in to her head, knocking her out so that we don't know if the EMPI disc brakes would stop her, with the Seatbelt Planet belts locking her in for a watery death?

Thanks in advance. I've been around theSamba for a while, but never in this neighborhood.

[Mikedrevguy]

In regards to the brakes- the Bwajaja has discs up front and and drums in the rear- best decision for this was swapping out the rubber lines for braided lines. Stops solidly enough. I understand the desire to keep the baby girl safe.

By ‘Bus rear’ are you saying it’s swing axle? Looks to be raised in rear a bit, that will contribute to the stiffness of suspension. Could run through some speed bumps at 20-25mph just to see how stiff/soft it really is.

Yeah, looks like a great car for mountain roads, back country roads, desert roads and looks cool on the street.
Good luck.have fun.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

Illigitimi non-Carborundum!!

[rayjay]

Definitely need some pics of the underside so we can see the torsion area. Almost looks like a bus torsion welded in under the original torsion. ETA, maybe he means rgb ??


As for a roll bar, yes it needs to be padded. The deal is that the inside of the roof structure is steel so it's not like you aren't going to bump your head onto the door frame, b pillar, etc which are not padded.

[rosevillain]

Definitely reduction boxes and a swing axle, not a 3-rib. Does not look like the torsion housing has been welded in, so bug torsions, looks like long spring plates, to RGBs. Some ugly plates welded to the torsion snout cover hold the link with blown out heim joints, seriously looks like a beaver chewed these things out, but they are like 1/2” thick. The RGBs are where the lift comes from. Sorry, I didn’t make that very clear.

[Mikedrevguy]

Well, the RGBs can act as a built in governor- ain’t gonna go super fast.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

Illigitimi non-Carborundum!!

[rosevillain]

[earthquake]

Its better then my first car, 71 Ford LTD wagon with a worn out 429 that got about 10 MPG, but then gas was only 65¢ a gallon.

eQ
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[rosevillain]

[joemama]

If I were you, I would limit the down travel in the rear, just to keep things safe, prevent a tire from tucking under, because of the swing axle. Im not familiar with the bus torsion housing, but if its like a bug, you can weld 1/4 piece of flat stock on top of the stock stop (where the spring plates rest when all the way down). You can also get a spring plate strap kit, weld that on and weld the stop to that.

[oprn]

The brake parts on the rear should all match. I have all '70 Bus parts on the rear of my Sand rail and am quite happy with the stopping power on that end. Lighter car mind you.

I think the super tall rubber is mostly what is killing your stopping power. Yes take a serious look at the rear camber on that car and reduce/limit it. That along with the added height that car has would be my primary safety concern! As is the car is a roll over waiting for a place to happen.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[BFB]

I have a 65 with large nut RGB's running 31-10.50's and a boosted 2021. feels most comfortable at 54 mph which is 3300 rpm. highway not so much fun but back roads are great, hardly need to downshift unless it's a really sharp 20 mph type corner.
these rgb's are wider than type1 swing axle and that wider wheel base seems to help handing to me.
I don't have much top speed but I also don't slow down much for corners
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Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[dustymojave]

I agree that the rear down travel should be limited by adding about 1/4" of material to the down stops. Welding a piece of 1/4" x 1/2" key stock or bar stock would be my suggestion. You can buy strap kits or make your own. I have them on my Hi Jumper swingaxle race car you see in my avatar. The torsion bars may have been OK, but they were probably cranked up to stupid preload.

When you replace the heims on the radius rods (which are a VERY GOOD THING) be sure the heims and bolts are matched. Big heims on little bolts is just not right, but I've seen it. The axle tubes should have an over tube that the axle tube can rotate in which allows the rear suspension to work, then the radius rods prevent the rear end of the car from doing a 'stink beetle' (tail up in the air) every time you apply throttle. That stink beetle deal makes a car unstable on a road with bumps too. Without those radius rods, every bump the rear wheels encounter the rear end wants to jack up in the air, which can make the car dance like it's listening to Brazilian music and it's Mardi Gras.

The roll cage is a good idea to me. My Baja has a 4-point 1/2 cage that I installed in the mid 1970s. Then in the 1990s, I added to it to make it a full bumper to bumper cage. Padding is for climbing in and out of the car. If a person inside is going to hit their head on the cage in a crash or from offroading, they better damn well put their seat belts on!!!! Shoulder belts, in a 3-, 4-, 5-, 6- or 7-point harness should ALWAYS be mounted at least close to the height of the shoulder of the person in the seat. Higher is OK. Lower is NO!. Shoulder belts mounted to the floor will let you bang your face on the windshield and if upside down can cause compressive fracture of the spine.

I welcome your young lady to the world of air cooled VWs and offroading!
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[dustymojave]

I just looked up that link to the SeatBelt Planet 4-points.

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/images/F198647278

I borrowed their picture so I can talk intelligently about their products. Maybe sell some for them.

I disagree with their suggestion in their web page to mount the shoulder belts to the floor behind the seat. That is DANGEROUS. If you have them mounted to the floor and they pass over a shoulder bar in the roll cage with a loop to keep the belts from retracting all the way to the floor...then that can be OK.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[rosevillain]

[dustymojave]

[71StandardReduction]

It's likely that the front torsion beam has been "cut and turned" to increase ground clearance, which is just a method of adding preload to the torsion leafs which will make it stiff.
Nice Baja btw, I'd love to have that exact car.
_________________
One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

https://youtube.com/@SCOFabwerx?feature=shared

[dustymojave]

Cutting and turning front torsions will NOT make the ride stiff, unless it's been turned too far (not too far for offroad racing, but too far for street and mild offroad use). The torsion leaves haven't been changed, just the angle they are held at. If the car gets aftermarket heavy duty torsion leaves, then it will be more stiff.

Since it has ball joint beam, it can only be raised to the limit of the ball joints. If you install high angle ball joints that are skinny in the ball stud neck, then you can get a few more degrees of turn for maybe 1/2-3/4" of added travel. But my experience and observation has been that those ball joints are extra weak, so I don't recommend them.

You can raise the front with lift spindles, but again, my observation of those has been that they're weak. Ask around why EMPI stopped selling them. Or you can spend a LOT of $$ to buy Thing spindles which will provide nearly 3" of lift, like the lift spindles, but are strong.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[71StandardReduction]

Richard, just a guess seeing how the front seems to be higher than factory position by quite a bit.
Who knows if it was turned to the extent that BJs are maxed out.
Speaking of Lift spindles, does anyone know why Tweeds / T I designs Balljoint spindles aren't available?
_________________
One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

https://youtube.com/@SCOFabwerx?feature=shared

[Mal evolent]

I had similar seat belts, with a racing buckle. I ditched them within a month. Putting them on and taking them off a dozen times while driving around town gets real tiresome.
_________________
73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats

Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index

[dustymojave]

I don't think Tweeds is around any more. I've not seen or heard anything about them for quite a while.

As far as the seatbelts are concerned, yeah 5-point race style harnesses can be a pain for daily driver use. But my wife and I have dealt with it for decades.

Stitched 4-point belts with snap-in buckles are simpler to get into than hook and loop with separate belts.

3-point belts would be even easier and would work reasonably well for most minor offroading purposes. Not all Baja Bugs are race cars.

But snap in belt buckles can jam up with dust and mud or other dirt. Youu could ask my son about his recent experience in a Can Am UTV when the owner got a little too excited and put them on their heads. And then they couldn't get out until someone came along and put them on their wheels and helped them get the belts to release. So for offroad, I prefer and recommend the hook and loop type of belts.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.