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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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price is subjective:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...ton=Search
another example:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-adaptive-head...NsQAvD_BwE
if they work as good or better than i think, i'll drop the 500 on them. 250 each isn't really that bad imho
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6981
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I’ve been following this thread for awhile and I’m Guess I’m missing what’s wrong with the $100 Hella H4 headlights. I’m on my 3rd set and they are great, the my light the roads better then my truck does.
I left this a let’s see how many ways we can reinvent the wheel situation?
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Years ago I had a nice set of Hella H4's that came in a 71 Westy I bought. I installed them in my 65 Riviera camper, and I hated them. If they were adjusted right for the low beams, the high beams were shinin' coons in the trees along the road. If I adjusted the high beams properly, the low beams were hitting the street about five yards in front of the bus.
I went back to Halogens and moved on. I hope these Toyota versions work better for me.
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22450
Location: Escondido CA
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| j10nbom wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| j10nbom wrote: |
| I bit the bullet and got the Toyota/Koito H4 kit after weighing my options for a lighting upgrade. It was less than half the price of a comparable Hella kit (PN 002395801) at $40.14 (excluding tax and shipping) versus $80.99, which was the best I could find for the Hellas. |
My local dealer wanted almost 80 bucks for the kit, plus tax. Also they weren't in stock, and the guy could not tell me whether I would have to pay shipping until they were ordered. I passed, but I might order some elsewhere for my 68 single cab. |
Below is the dealer where I ordered them. Shipping was like $15 or $16 to Philly.
https://onlineparts.toyotasouthatlanta.com/p/HEADLAMP-ASSEMBLY/72018210/8111060P70.html |
Wow, thanks. Done ordered already. And with the free shipping coupon code, I just bought two kits for $80 shipped. Didn't need two sets right now, but they'll get used at some point I am sure. |
Got 'em in the mail yesterday. Nice stuff! I won't get the chance to install them for at least a couple of months, but the quality appears to be top notch.
Two complete kits for $80, Made in Japan, top quality. Can't beat it.
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1181
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I installed the set from Toyota without the relay wiring kit and they are really nice. So much better than the junk EMPI H4s I got from CIP1. I can actually see the road now.
I will look at installing the relay kit but it looks like I'll need to drill 1" holes in the headlight housings for the plugs to fit through. Looks to be a very simple hook up of a positive lead (+) and a negative lead (-) and a couple screws to fix the relay mounts and then just plug the 3 plugs and it will be done.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
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blue72beetle
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 846
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I ordered a set of these cheap H4 lights from Bus Depot, but when they showed up in the mail one of them was pre-shattered. They haven't got back to me on how to proceed.
https://www.busdepot.com/nl910ch4
I originally wanted the ones with city lights in them, but they said they were out of stock and didn't know when they would get them. Of course you can still add them to your cart on their website 
https://www.busdepot.com/hq6014
I liked the rounded profile shape of the cheap ones, it seems that the Hella's are more flat. Looks to be the same with the Toyota ones. I'll probably end up getting the Toyota lights.
https://www.busdepot.com/0301600118
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6981
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Aren’t these Toyota H4 headlights a sealed unit? Seems to me it would be better to have the Hellas where you can change out the bulb when it goes out. And the Hellas also give you the option of buying a brighter bulb.
Lights are like the third most important thing besides tires and brakes. I don’t see why people would buy cheaper inferior headlights. We aren’t talking about a lot of money here, the difference in price is a tank of gas.
I’m all for adapting parts to my bus, but this one doesn’t make sense to me.
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j10nbom
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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| richparker wrote: |
Aren’t these Toyota H4 headlights a sealed unit? Seems to me it would be better to have the Hellas where you can change out the bulb when it goes out. And the Hellas also give you the option of buying a brighter bulb.
Lights are like the third most important thing besides tires and brakes. I don’t see why people would buy cheaper inferior headlights. We aren’t talking about a lot of money here, the difference in price is a tank of gas.
I’m all for adapting parts to my bus, but this one doesn’t make sense to me. |
They're not sealed beams, they come with the removable H4 bulb like the Hellas that you can swap out. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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| richparker wrote: |
Lights are like the third most important thing besides tires and brakes. I don’t see why people would buy cheaper inferior headlights. We aren’t talking about a lot of money here, the difference in price is a tank of gas.
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For decades I have only run standard sealed beam halogen bulbs up front, that cost under ten bucks a piece. No issues. That goes for every one of my vehicles except the 93 Moto Guzzi (factory H4) and a modern Toyota appliance.
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:34 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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here is the Philips Ultinon Pro9000 LED H4 (5000K color temp) in the Japanese Koito H4 housings
straight up Japanese Laser Beam type shit :snipersmile:
definitely no stray mess of light like most aftermarket stuff
just a totally clean lower half with an almost projector like cut off
a little street sign illumination shooting off
and a long throw driving light type performance from the focused areas |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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^^^ That is the type of beam cutoff that is great for the driver, but awful for oncoming cars. Especially if the road is bumpy. It is like being hit with a harsh high/low beam flash constantly.
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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that is quite simply just not true
i've personally tested halogen, bixenon H4 HID, multiple chinese LED bulbs, philips gen1 ultinon and philips pro9k ... in Cibie, Hella and Koito...all on a Bay window bus
these (when aimed correctly) produce some of the best lighting i've seen so far - for both driver and oncoming traffic - better than the halogens. comparable with fancy new cars with HID and LED lighting, even.
the big update from philips for the pro9k is in fact what they call "SafeBeam" technology - e.g. this revision of the bulbs was specifically designed to avoid glare for oncoming traffic.
so they are actually purporting precisely the lack of glare for oncoming drivers as the main feature of this product revision.
but hey, no need for assertions based on analysis of ambiguous and anecdotal photographs (with no control image for comparison) to prompt an internet flame war on the subject.
perhaps try for yourself |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| ^^^ That is the type of beam cutoff that is great for the driver, but awful for oncoming cars. Especially if the road is bumpy. It is like being hit with a harsh high/low beam flash constantly. |
for reference, here is a beam pattern/cut-off that is truly consistent with your description
THESE are the assholes rolling around with their eBay headlight "upgrades" (in this case a LED bulb set...the owner even said: "totally disgusted with the beam pattern") that you are talking about.
there are two key elements here that cause said fucking of oncoming traffic, as follows:
- there is no clear cut off where light completely starts/stops. this clear cut off normally allows the lights to be aimed so that they always stay below a level (e.g. eye level) that would cast light directly into oncoming drivers. the absence of a clean cut off makes this very difficult.
- there is stray light thrown about seemingly randomly. this is what happens when you place light output into portions of the very precisely engineered optical fixture of a headlight that were not designed to receive light. the results are very simple: from an engineering perspective the output is simply unpredictable and unexpected. the light should all be placed in a very specific and strategic manner, with a low beam that is wide and dispersed - for a nice view of the road in front of you - with some additional extremely focused light placed directly in front of the vehicle - for distance, seeing the road far ahead - as well as a little extra light throw off higher than the rest of the lighting, but only in the direction of the passenger side - to illuminate street signs. you can see that none of these elements are really presented in this shit show of light example (and, on the contrary, all of them are very well evidenced in the Koito pic above as well as a well defined and sharp cut off,).
it is also worthy to note that extremely high output headlights, even with an absolutely textbook perfect beam pattern, do create some additional responsibility. for example, in europe, regulation generally requires the use of Xenon HID headlights to implement a self-leveling system. you may notice that, when you start a car with these, you see the headlight beam move about as the system self-regulates.
Link
now, i'm not trying to say that this is totally necessary.. but i would like to acknowledge what you are saying in that hills and bumps do present challenges for other drivers as lighting output increases and having a very well defined beam pattern and carefully aiming them is absolutely a responsibility for the civil operation of an upgraded lighting system (well, any automotive lighting, even low performance sealed beams, for that matter; but the terribly un-designed randomly thrown together aftermarket configurations use in particular are already so bad to start with that hills and bumps do make things even more brutally painful for others). |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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| I think USA laws also require that self-levelling feature, though I'm not sure. My 2005 Prius had HIDs and it had a load sensor on the rear axle to adjust aim for load. Those with halogens lacked the feature. |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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NHTSA addresses that here:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/shih3
| NHSTA Chief Legal Counsel wrote: |
| you asked whether our regulations require HID lighting systems to include "auto-leveling" and washing systems, similar to those incorporated in vehicles sold in Europe. The answer is no. FMVSS No. 108 does specify aimability performance requirements under paragraph S7.8 of the standard, but that paragraph does not require an "auto-leveling" capability. The standard also does not contain any requirement for a headlamp washing system. |
I think we just get lucky and the OEMs use the same units that are needed for compliance in most LHD European countries. So, HID without self-level is technically OK... but not something you typically see ... as, one can assume, they standardize the part across all LHD markets.
There are examples of cars without them - for example, the Chevy Silverado could be had with statically aimed D5S HID lights in original form.. there are others.... Mazdaspeed 3, for example, had an in-car resistor switch to allow driver aim...and instructions in the manual about how to set it based on load being carried. (a little absurd in some ways regarding the load advice but also cool that u can control it...have to use a VAG-COM/VCDS tool to set the base aim using an "adaptation" setting on modern VW/Audi vehicles) |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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There has been little improvement since the Citroen SM headlights back in '72.
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1181
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Toyota Koito H4 kit patterns.
I didn't install the relay kit, just plug and play.
High Beam
Low Beam
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image
Last edited by Shonandb on Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bnam
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2936
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Your left side beam is a bit twisted. See if you can rotate the headlight clockwise (when looking at it) to get the left side of that beam pattern to be horizontal.
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