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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Who.Me? wrote:
oprn wrote:
Only in the last 40 years or so has this been the case where city developers have designed around this concept of the masses commuting to thier jobs and shopping.


Maybe on *your* side of the Atlantic. Rolling Eyes


I think that you may be mistaken.
Most major US cities have existed far longer than the Automobile has been around.
Maybe some of the West Coast cities grew with motorized transportation. But here in the East?
There were wagons and horse drawn street cars for a long time….. early mass transit.
Electric street trolleys gave way to buses, cities spent millions for subway systems.
All to move people who lacked transportation.
Trains ran to vacation areas…..
it is only since the car became common that we moved away from mass transit.

Our cities were NOT designed for motor vehicles, we have simply squeezed them into a largely pedestrian city.

Dave


Yes indeed you seem to unaware or misinformed as to why mass transit has been curtailed here in the states. Without going into a larger explanation you can take a quick look as it’s well documented on how major industries conspired to promote a civilization built around cars.

The oil companies, tire manufacturers and General Motors among others working through shell companies bought up and dismantled urban public transportation. I’d say they were quite successful too.
The idea was easy to implement too because shit was literally piling up and couldn’t be removed fast enough. Imagine summers in New York City, the smell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-ever-happened-to-pub_b_633585

Just a quick primer but there is enough reading to last an afternoon on to the how’s and why’s of why our systems look like they do.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Sorry, not much of a conspiracy theory guy.

You can make a theory for everything and before you know it, the sky is falling and you can trust no-one!

I choose not to live in that angry hate filled world.

Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-ever-happened-to-pub_b_633585

Just a quick primer but there is enough reading to last an afternoon on to the how’s and why’s of why our systems look like they do.

I clicked on the 1st link.
“ According to Snell's testimony, the New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad (NH) in New York and Connecticut was profitable until it was acquired and converted to diesel trains.[83] Little of NH was converted to diesel, and remains in electric operation under Metro-North Railroad and Amtrak. In reality, the line was in financial difficulty for years and filed for bankruptcy in 1935.[84]
"GM killed the New York street cars".[83] In reality, the New York Railways Company entered receivership in 1919,[85] six years before it was bought by the New York Railways Corporation.[86]
"GM Killed the Red cars in Los Angeles".[83] Pacific Electric Railway (which operated the 'red cars') was hemorrhaging routes as traffic congestion worsened with growing car ownership levels after the end of World War II.[87][88]
The Salt Lake City system is mentioned in the 1949 court papers. However, the city's system was purchased by National City Lines in 1944 when all but one route had already been withdrawn, and the withdrawal of this last line had been approved three years earlier.[citation needed]”
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
oprn wrote:
Only in the last 40 years or so has this been the case where city developers have designed around this concept of the masses commuting to thier jobs and shopping.


Maybe on *your* side of the Atlantic. Rolling Eyes

I am not what you call a well travelled person but when we were in South America I was overjoyed to find towns and cities that were so much more people oriented than we are. Little Mom and Pop businesses everywhere, you can find anything you need within walking distance anywhere in the city. Shops, offices, small manufacturing mixed in liberally with housing! Efficient mass transportation everywhere. Ya, You could live your whole life down there without a car quite easily.

I thought "Where do I sign up?" about three times a day!
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Who.Me? wrote:
oprn wrote:
Only in the last 40 years or so has this been the case where city developers have designed around this concept of the masses commuting to thier jobs and shopping.


Maybe on *your* side of the Atlantic. Rolling Eyes

I am not what you call a well travelled person but when we were in South America I was overjoyed to find towns and cities that were so much more people oriented than we are. Little Mom and Pop businesses everywhere, you can find anything you need within walking distance anywhere in the city. Shops, offices, small manufacturing mixed in liberally with housing! Efficient mass transportation everywhere. Ya, You could live your whole life down there without a car quite easily.

I thought "Where do I sign up?" about three times a day!


Thats because they've been too poor to buy cars and "modernize", get out of town and live the good life of traffic jambs and sprawl in the burbs.
Only farmers live in the country. They do stupid stuff with all that land ....... like make food........
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

I would say this thread is heading off the electric rails but they have pulled up, paved over , and put a parking lot

I just commuted from port Jeff Long Island to Albany, on train 10 for the LIRR, 46 FOR AMTRAK. tiok 5 hours instead of 4 in car, with a 1 hour connect at Penn.

Not only a financial win on cost of travel, I billed three hours of work during trip
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Thats because they've been too poor to buy cars and "modernize", get out of town and live the good life of traffic jambs and sprawl in the burbs.
Only farmers live in the country. They do stupid stuff with all that land ....... like make food........

Some prety broad generalizations here! I live in the country because it's far cheaper than the city in terms of housing. My property of 4.5 acers is valued at 1/10 of what a home would cost in the city. The vast majority of farmers here are poor, it's only the huge corporate farms that are wealthy.

Your response tells me you are still well within the urban bubble. Take a trip outside the "commuting distance" influence, get to know a few real rural people and report back!

Also I was surprised at how modernized the majority of South Americans are! They also are pretty adept at stretching the old technologies so there is a healthy mix of both. They are not at all the throw away society we are! I liked that too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
I would say this thread is heading off the electric rails but they have pulled up, paved over , and put a parking lot


I feel that, by the time this thread is put to bed, we'll be ready for a 'zero point energy vehicles are bad' thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
Abscate wrote:
I would say this thread is heading off the electric rails but they have pulled up, paved over , and put a parking lot


I feel that, by the time this thread is put to bed, we'll be ready for a 'zero point energy vehicles are bad' thread.


Eh, you know That the OP started this thread just for the entertainment value it would provide him.

Dave
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Metro Phoenix has over 5 million residents and no Amtrak.
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Bonesberg55
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Metro Phoenix has over 5 million residents and no Amtrak.


There are a lot of retirees in Arizona. They don't go anywhere so they don't need any transportation of any kind if they live in the Phoenix area. I have retired family living in the area and they hang around the pool or stay inside.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

https://phoenix.org/light-rail/
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

I was listening to a radio show the other day and a caller called in that said he worked for the US government doing impact studies on EV's. He said they had to sign non-disclosure agreements, but he was retiring, and didn't really care.

He said they had measurable increases of bone cancer and lymphoma in people and children that routinely drove in EV's. Apparently they measure electro magnetic fields for safety when the car was ON, but stationary. When the car was in motion, the fields were multipled and possibly into dangerous levels.

Additionally, since most of the heavy metals come out of China, and their mining practices are no way as clean as they are required to be in the US, the impact to the environment was much much worse than reported.

Also he made an interesting point about the resale market of used cars. Everyone is aware of how Tesla makes it where the end user can't repair or alter their car or operating systems. So you kinda end up leasing a car from Tesla even when you buy it. You are still hooked to Tesla. If this becomes the standard in the EV market, resale of used cars will dwindle to the point of destroying the industry. Owners will be forced to sell back their cars near end of life so they can be property recycled.

Now take it with a grain of salt people. It was just some interesting points to think about.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
I was listening to a radio show the other day and a caller called in that said he worked for the US government doing impact studies on EV's. He said they had to sign non-disclosure agreements, but he was retiring, and didn't really care.

He said they had measurable increases of bone cancer and lymphoma in people and children that routinely drove in EV's. Apparently they measure electro magnetic fields for safety when the car was ON, but stationary. When the car was in motion, the fields were multipled and possibly into dangerous levels.

Additionally, since most of the heavy metals come out of China, and their mining practices are no way as clean as they are required to be in the US, the impact to the environment was much much worse than reported.

Also he made an interesting point about the resale market of used cars. Everyone is aware of how Tesla makes it where the end user can't repair or alter their car or operating systems. So you kinda end up leasing a car from Tesla even when you buy it. You are still hooked to Tesla. If this becomes the standard in the EV market, resale of used cars will dwindle to the point of destroying the industry. Owners will be forced to sell back their cars near end of life so they can be property recycled.

Now take it with a grain of salt people. It was just some interesting points to think about.


This grain of salt says it sounds like that caller has a severe case of paranoia, was a disgruntled employee, or made the whole thing up. My guess is the latter. We have electric motors all around us. Refrigerators, microwaves, vacuum cleaners, treadmills, and door openers are just a few. As far as China, heavy metals or otherwise, quality is non-existent. There is no reason to buy anything from there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Well there is actually good reasons to buy heavy metals from China.

1. They have some of the world's largest known deposits, including lithium, which is what is needed to make lithium batteries that can hold large amounts or energy per lb, and can tolerate drain/charge cycles.

2. They have cheap labor to mine.

3. They don't care much about polluting the environment that they take the minerals.

So the metals become affordable if they don't have to bother with all the environmental constraints.

I have no idea about the validity of the caller. So I make no judgement on the EM fields, but I'd assume they are stronger than running an electric can opener.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Rich Latsch wrote:
There is no reason to buy anything from there.

Um, yeah there is. They make cheap products. It's that simple. We don't like to pay ridiculous prices for things as it is, now let's say that product that was $200 now was made in the US. It would be even more expensive. Why am I gonna pay $500 for an item that is $200 from China? Is the quality gonna be that different? Doubt it. Does this apply to everything? No, but most consumer products, it does in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Rich Latsch wrote:


This grain of salt says it sounds like that caller has a severe case of paranoia, was a disgruntled employee, or made the whole thing up. My guess is the latter. We have electric motors all around us. Refrigerators, microwaves, vacuum cleaners, treadmills, and door openers are just a few. As far as China, heavy metals or otherwise, quality is non-existent. There is no reason to buy anything from there.


considering your average schmuck isn't around huge EMF devices all day, you're probably right.

sitting inside an electronic casket such as any full EV is going to generate a whole lot more EMF than your blender.

pretty well documented what EMF's do to a body:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24280284/

i don't think the caller was paranoid, just throwing out some info some may not consider.

my wife works for the FDA and is pretty fucking high up the chain. if i told you what i know about things going on, you'd have a stroke.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

Talk radio is not a source of reliable information.

If you buy on price without consideration of origin, don’t complain when you can’t find work
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

67ctbug wrote:
Rich Latsch wrote:
There is no reason to buy anything from there.

Um, yeah there is. They make cheap products. It's that simple. We don't like to pay ridiculous prices for things as it is, now let's say that product that was $200 now was made in the US. It would be even more expensive. Why am I gonna pay $500 for an item that is $200 from China? Is the quality gonna be that different? Doubt it. Does this apply to everything? No, but most consumer products, it does in my opinion.


When the lowest price is the first consideration, then quality goes away. You have to look for quality. The first thing I do is look at where the item was made and that's because China has a reputation for making junk. People are happy to replace the item multiple times because it's simply like buying an item on time. They can afford to pay $100 five times for an item that will last 6 months instead of paying $500 up front for one that will last them for years. My grandparents paid cash for anything they bought and they bought the best they could afford, not the cheapest. They were not wealthy but when they made a purchase, they expected it to last a lifetime. They bought a new car every 15 years and owned one house. Today, we expect to replace everything and that's because most everything made is a throw away item.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
https://phoenix.org/light-rail/


Ha !!! That's a streetcar! Pittsburgh and other cities had those over a hundred years ago. And just 26 miles of track.

Anyway, my home is at the red dot, so the light rail is of no value to me.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Phoenix used to be served by Amtrak, actually took trip from Phx to Dallas in 1987 (was cheaper to buy round trip tickets to Dallas and bypass the Dallas to San Antonio leg than to just buy Phx to Dallas and return from Dallas to Phx.

That train served Phoenix and had a stop in Tempe. Then there was a big fight about who owned the track and fees, and train simply bypassed Phoenix and Tempe and initiated a stop in the "huge" metropolis of Maricopa AZ which has 58K population.
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