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mikewire
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 805
Location: San Antonio, TX
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 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| The bearing is insulated in a rubber bushing. |
Insulated? That's what I thought but it's not according to these gents below.
| telford dorr wrote: |
| Upper support bushing / collar and spring (1,2, 3 in diagram above). |
| kreemoweet wrote: |
The shaft is connected electrically to the column tube (which is hot when the ignition is on and horn button not pressed) via the bearing, which is metal thing in contact with both the tube and the shaft.
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Ok, so the bushing is the contact point of continuity between the steering shaft and the column, really just wanted to clarify that, so thank you. I assumed there was no continuity...that thought is related to some work I was doing with turn switch that has metal return tabs, which ended up being a major pain in my ass...totally unrelated to this post.
I guess my point here is that my understanding about the horn circuit is that the ground side of the horn circuit is not "hot", the button simply provides continuity in the circuit when pushed, and the horn sounds. Other than that, it's just the ground leg of the circuit.
Thank you SGK for the explanation.
@starbucket, no you can't run your stereo off the column. I would suggest you create or move a switched & fused 12v wire and a solid body ground for that.
_________________
-Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| mikewire wrote: |
| I guess my point here is that my understanding about the horn circuit is that the ground side of the horn circuit is not "hot", the button simply provides continuity in the circuit when pushed, and the horn sounds. |
The button does as you say, but you are wrong to say the "ground" side of the horn is not hot. All the stuff mentioned in posts above as being "hot", is called that because there is a continuous metallic path from those points to the positive terminal
of the battery. It doesn't get any hotter than that. And it is really a mistake to call the brown wire from the horn a "ground".
That term should be reserved for wires or other metallic parts that are permanently connected to the chassis, the negative
battery terminal, or things that are.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:07 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| mikewire wrote: |
| I guess my point here is that my understanding about the horn circuit is that the ground side of the horn circuit is not "hot", the button simply provides continuity in the circuit when pushed, and the horn sounds. |
The button does as you say, but you are wrong to say the "ground" side of the horn is not hot. All the stuff mentioned in posts above as being "hot", is called that because there is a continuous metallic path from those points to the positive terminal
of the battery. It doesn't get any hotter than that. And it is really a mistake to call the brown wire from the horn a "ground".
That term should be reserved for wires or other metallic parts that are permanently connected to the chassis, the negative
battery terminal, or things that are. |
huh?
The column is hot only because the horn isn't being honked. Once the button grounds the column so the horn can honk, then the column becomes the ground for the horn.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Jrh5r
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2021
Posts: 33
Location: East coast
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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I never really understood why so many people have issues wiring up the horn. The column is hot and the horn won’t beep until the circuit is complete with a ground. The horn button should supply that ground and complete the circuit when pushed. If something is grounding out or completing the circuit prior to the button it’s going to beep. Seems like a poor design, as many things can cause it to ground it. Check the bushing at the base of the column, the ignition lock, and dangling keys touching the column.
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1973 1.7L Bus |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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In the electrical world, something being "hot" means it has voltage on it (constantly or intermittently). It does not mean that it has to be a power source - it only means that at some point in its operation it has a measurable voltage on it. It is the opposite of something being "grounded" or "earthed".
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| Jrh5r wrote: |
| I never really understood why so many people have issues wiring up the horn. |
Basic electrical principles are not taught, except to the few, in many schools. It's astonishing how clueless most of the public is about
how the things in their everyday household environment work, and the very elementary scientific principles involved.
Commenters on this forum keep repeating, day after day and year after year, bogus statements about the subject, even after
numerous corrections have been posted in the very same thread, leading others who read here down into the swamp of
ignorance and error.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mikewire
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 805
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:06 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
Basic electrical principles are not taught, except to the few, in many schools. It's astonishing how clueless most of the public is about
how the things in their everyday household environment work, and the very elementary scientific principles involved.
Commenters on this forum keep repeating, day after day and year after year, bogus statements about the subject, even after
numerous corrections have been posted in the very same thread, leading others who read here down into the swamp of
ignorance and error. |
My, that's quite the high horse you just rode in on.
I mean, I see your point and agree on the basic principles issue, but I think you're out of line on the rest. But you are entitled to your opinion.
Now...personally I'm not an electrician by trade, but I have taught myself enough skills to wire my own shop/garage properly and do some installations throughout my time. This horn circuit is not the typical one you'd find, there are some nuances to understand in order to make it work properly, so I think it's ok for some to be confused.
If my previous responses sounded ignorant to you, that's fine to me...I know I'm not. Most of the disagreements I see on threads here come down to semantics and terminology, mainly because one guy has to make sure everyone knows he's the smartest one in the room.
Now, because of all the good info here, from many threads and many users, I learned to fix my problem on my own (and many many others), so I'm here just trying to help the OP solve his issue. So, let's try to do that, yeah?
Back to the topic so this doesn't get locked, OP did you figure out your problem?
_________________
-Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:37 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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the steering column is just being used as a wire between the switch and horn, like the image below.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3578
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus horn |
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| I think some people believe the switch has to be between the source (battery) and device (horn, in this case) on the positive (+) side of the system. As long as the device is ungrounded you have to thru a switch, button, nob, or simply inserting a key create a ground (-) to activate that device. In this case there should be no continuity between the horn wire and chassis/body (-) until you press the horn button. That completes the circuit and meep,meep's the horn. |
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