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swsl Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017 Posts: 94 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I'm convinced timing chain gear failure is due to heat and poor oil quality/intervals. You don't see these issues as much on other non-Eurovan VR6 powered vehicles. |
Good point. You think that EVs will tend to have lower oil change intervals than other VR6 vehicles?
I'm guessing it's heat that accelerates timing chain parts wear - that EV Vr6 motors are running hotter under more load - and that oil intervals will be about the same or even more frequent on beloved EVs.
Of course this has turned into a total thread hijack and back to such an old discussion. Apologies for my part!
But I think that everybody is in agreement that muc more frequent (than factory spec) tranny fluid changes are critical. Tranny fluid really does break down quickly at the temps the 01P will run at if not specially cooled. _________________ 2002 EV WK |
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ocelotpotpie Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014 Posts: 211 Location: Boston
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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swsl wrote: |
Good point. You think that EVs will tend to have lower oil change intervals than other VR6 vehicles? |
I think original purchasers of the EVs were more likely to use suboptimal oils and use longer oil change intervals, as well as not changing the ATF as frequently as we'd currently recommend. Maybe we mostly have the benefit of hindsight.
The transmissions and engines see so much heat in that little area that having an external cooler from the get go and doing frequent ATF changes seems to be the difference between needing a rebuild at 150k or going strong to 300k+.
I do think the 098/01P is poorly suited for the van, though. |
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swsl Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017 Posts: 94 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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ocelotpotpie wrote: |
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I do think the 098/01P is poorly suited for the van, though. |
It certainly was under-cooled! And/Or fluid changes were WAY under spec'ed for it's actual USA operating temps.
But so far, I like how it performs. We'll see if keeping it below 200 (in my case) and frequent changes make it reliable. _________________ 2002 EV WK |
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MrPulldown Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2020 Posts: 649 Location: Truckee
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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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We recently had a external AFT cooler installed in our EVC. Drove it all over the southwest and the transmission did great. Pulled some tall mountain passes that would have over heated the ATF previously and had the "stuck down" condition; but nothing.
This weekend, I decided to perform a simple fluid level test. Came back from a drive and let the trans cool. Shot the pan with IR thermometer and read 105 degrees. Started the engine and pulled the drain level plug. About a cup of nice red ATF flowed out, and then started to dripple. Installed the plug. Took a temp reading of the drained out ATF and it read 120 degrees. A little higher than the 113 I have read as the max inspection temp. I think it will be ok though.
HAving worked on several transmissions with this type of fluid level drain, I now prefer it over a dipstick. Too many potential errors for owners to make.
Also a + on the new external ATF cooler. |
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sagavan Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2020 Posts: 27 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Abscate wrote: |
Leveled car, added another 500 ml until level tube dripped
Install plug
Install fill plug
Good for another 50k! |
Did you run the van through all the gears on the selector?
I know it calls out for it, but I’m not sure what exactly that does since the van will stay in the same gear the whole time. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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It probably does cycle through the solenoids and thus helps eliminate air in the fluid, but the engineers at VW would be the sole knowledge here. _________________ .ssS! |
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sagavan Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2020 Posts: 27 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I just completed a filter and fluid change and encountered a couple of oddities along the way. I would be curious if anyone has some feedback to help me figure them out.
The first is that one of the bolts on the pan seemed to have previously been stripped. I noticed it when I was taking it out and then it would not torque in. I replaced it in the same hole and it spun in its place. I’m guessing this happened during a previous change from the previous owner. It didn’t seem to be leaking before and doesn’t now, but I’m wondering if there’s any suggested fix for this?
I purchased four liters of fluid and ended up putting all of it in, without any draining out when I brought it up to temperature. I ended up putting another liter in and it finally overflowed, taking an additional 400ml. I was expecting it to only take around 3.5 liters, per the Bentley, but this is nearly a liter more. The shifts now are actually quite smooth and overall it feels great. The PO had it changed a few thousand miles ago by a reputable shop. Is it possible that they under filled it by nearly a liter?
I also installed a dip stick and strange enough, it is still showing the ATF as low. I’m hesitant to put any more in as it feels great and after I followed the overflow procedure. Has anyone with a dipstick experienced this?
I should mention that my van is a 2002 EVC with 01P tranny. |
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ocelotpotpie Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014 Posts: 211 Location: Boston
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Depending on which bolt it is, your two options are to either drill and re-tap/timesert the hole, or drill it through and use a nut/bolt combo.
If it isn't leaking you may be able to just leave it, but if it were me I'd want to get it sorted. If you aren't comfortable tapping/timeserting yourself then bring it to someone for sure.
IIRC the max capacity on a completely dry transmission is something like 7-8 liters. When you drain it through the plug you're only draining about 50-60% of the fluid. You still have a bunch inside the transmission and torque converter. This is why folks occasionally recommend a full flush or a few changes in a row to clean out *all* the old fluid.
This Rialta info guide talks about it a bit:
http://www.rialtainfo.com/vw/vw_images/DIY%20Guide%20to%20changing%20the%20Eurovan%20ATF.pdf
I can't speak to the dispticks as I have no experience with them.
If the car was on level ground and you followed the procedure correctly including getting the transmission fluid up to temp before draining and you're within proper spec then you should be fine. The procedure has you overfill and then drain via the drain tube. So if you've done that properly and you're confident in your procedure then you can make a new mark on the dipstick and call that your "full" mark. |
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Endopotential Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2012 Posts: 186 Location: Pacifica, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Trying to see if this is something I can tackle myself in my driveway.
I would plan on using ramps to get things started. But the refill requires that the van is level. How do you access the overflow tube if the car is no longer on ramps at that point? It's only like 8-10inches off the floor. |
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VWpeeps#51 Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2022 Posts: 4 Location: MD
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:51 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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How do I know if my 95 eurovan has an 0p1 trans? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:16 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Endopotential wrote: |
Trying to see if this is something I can tackle myself in my driveway.
I would plan on using ramps to get things started. But the refill requires that the van is level. How do you access the overflow tube if the car is no longer on ramps at that point? It's only like 8-10inches off the floor. |
Take the belly pan off completely, then slide under _________________ .ssS! |
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MrPulldown Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2020 Posts: 649 Location: Truckee
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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jack up both front and rear. If using ramps, drive up and drop the belly pan. Back down and drive up on stacked 2x6s. 2 boards provides plenty of space. _________________ 2002 EVC |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:28 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I simply have two sets of ramps, and the Van is tall enough that the rear set of ramps fit under the Van. I do wish there was clearance to drop the pan without lifting the front of the Van, but at least on mine, it just doesn't quite fit.
If you don't have/want to buy two sets of ramps, when I changed the trans fluid in my wife's Passat, I drove the front up on to the ramps then just raised the back with a jack and put the rear beam on jack stands at a height such that it was level. (Actually, when it came time to adjust the fluid level, I raised the rear slightly because on that car the tube is toward the rear of a longer pan (it's an inline engine model), so it allowed me to give the trans a slight "over fill."
Also note that the trans temperature is important because it will expand when it is hot, which means that if you pull the level check plug and it is too hot, more fluid will come out than is intended and you'll end up looking like it's full but actually have too little fluid. And once it is in the low end temperature range, it doesn't really take that long to continue heating up to the upper end of the range since you do the level check with the engine idling.
What is the recommended transmission cooler kit for these rigs? I wouldn't mind adding one. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:30 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I think VW calls for 40k ATF changes on the T4b chassis _________________ .ssS! |
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Endopotential Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2012 Posts: 186 Location: Pacifica, California
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Abscate or anyone else - do you make much fuss about making sure the transmission temp is "95-113F" when you check the fill level? Or are you just warming things up till the transmission pan is warm to the touch?
I'm bracing to do this job myself, as the local shop that was recommended seemed to have no idea what this involved.
I'm using TorquePro through the OBD2, and there is an "engine temp" number that is different than the radiator/coolant system. This second number seems to track with my DIY transmission temp sensor, so hopefully between the two I can get something close to an accurate measurement. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 2:28 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Just drive the car, drain the fluid. Drop the pan , clean, R/R filter, replace pan
There is enough residual heat In the engine to quickly warm the fluid to spec with the coolant-ATF exchanger in about 5 minutes, unless you have an external aftermarket cooler. _________________ .ssS! |
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VanGeek Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2022 Posts: 226 Location: New England
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Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Reviving the thread since I'm currently doing a drain and refill on my 2001 with 01P.
Followed the directions here and on the rialto site. Tranny had a LONG time to drain (a few weeks) while I refurbished the transmission pan which had some rust that required time to wire-brush, paint, and allow everything to fully cure.
I emptied 3.5 liters into it, brought up to temp (105 degrees) via OBDII monitor and IR thermometer aimed at the pan to make sure I had the right OBDII live data.
Wasn't full, so I emptied the last half liter and still not full. Off to get another liter...
Me thinks that it drained so long that I drained more ATF than is typical in an afternoon session. Since I had the pan off the trans for a few weeks, I secured a plastic bag to the bottom of it to keep dust/dirt out and noticed a sizeable amount of fluid continued to drip into the bag after the first 7-10 days. |
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