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Ceckert64 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 1931 Location: Manitowoc, WI
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:11 am Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Hey Bill - yes, it had a front end accident and a left rear accident in the early 80's, the hood was replaced and the right front fender and it looks like the headlight panel was also replaced. The car came with the repair receipts! The A/C was a VWOA system and the car has a ghost of a window sticker that reads "COOL" and came with a little pamphlet about the A/C.
Ceckert64; man, I hope that it's just carbon build up in the combustion chambers. We'll find out soon enough, though! _________________ **SUPPORT THE SAMBA**
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Chris Walden Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2010 Posts: 143 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Nice...Looks to have been stored indoors. I had a ‘74 that had spent its formative years in Nevada...The finish was toast...Funny.
Chris |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Quote: |
I know next to nothing about these A/C units but this one impresses me. Installed with no holes cut in the bottom. Looks as if this style fits over the underside of the trunk…really clean installation. I could be mistaken though |
Totally agree with Bill, that is a great A/C condenser set up! The other type was put in the spare tire well and vented via a hole in the bottom of the well. The spare tire fit over a specially molded plastic cover to protect the condenser.
You can see that actual set-up here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=615373
If I didn't already have a hole in the spare tire well, I would have loved to use what you have.
Anxious to see what you do with this car! _________________ 1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Got a NOS front mat from Ebay, it's amazing. Heavy duty, quality rubber. Not that the front carpets are worn, I pulled them this week and vacuumed it, it's in great shape. Also got a NOS set of ventshades for all four windows, some NOS aluminum vent grill covers. Check out the OG rear view mirror, same as a lat 70's bus mirror. Tail light seals for late beetles should work for the 412, too. Check out the photos! I'm having a blast with this 412 so far. I'm surprised how many NOS parts are still available; coming from the Beetle, Bus and Ghia world - most of NOS parts availability was gone long ago. Maybe the unpopularity and rareness of the 411/412 played into that phenomenon somehow?
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Worked on the 412 this weekend, paying attention to the front headlight area, trunk and interior floors. It was crashed in the 80's, they tacked on a new headlight nose panel, replaced driver fender and hood. They did such a shitty job, no grommets in the wiring loom holes, bad paint and it looks like over the years, things got rusty and dirty. Also, they cobbled together the wiring harness to the headlights, which fell apart in my hands at their splices. No matter, we'll get it fixed correctly and it will be awesome.
Inside, removed the carpets and seats and vacuumed it up, cleaned up pretty well. Have to clean up the battery tray area and rebuild the stuffing in the seats - it's toast. Overall, I really like the 412 as a VW; it's unique and weird on it's own, and even though it feels like the bastard child of VW; it's a glimpse of where VW was headed with the air cooled platforms before the water cooled VW's took over the scene in the mid 70's. Also the last of the Nordoff era cars. I think of all of the Type 4 based cars as major advancements from the Type 1 platform, in VW's true spirit of the car that changes, but stays the same. Even though that applied to the Beetle, I can see how all air cooled VW's were birthed in that concept.
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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I love this car -- especially the color! You are going to have a blast with it. The one thing I REALLY noticed driving these is the difference in speed compared to a beetle or bus.
My L-Jet beetle max's out at about 70 MPH. I could push it harder and get it to a higher speed, but it heats up and it tends to burn the points. It's meant for cruising at 60-65 IMHO. Same thing with the bus. Even though it has a 2.0 L-Jet in it, it's like pushing a wind-wall. It will go beyond 70, but again, it's straining the engine.
Then I got the 412. After I renewed all of the engine bits and the car itself, the car just wants to go. Cruising at 70 is nothing for this car, wait until you get behind the wheel. (after it's all fixed up). _________________ 1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Yeah,
I love this color also! You do have your work cut out for you on that nose to get it right. The trunk looks really cancer free…just some surface rust apparently. Make sure you peel more trunk liner back just to check especially for brake fluid spillage. The battery area pretty typical from the acid and fumes. Mine had eaten two small holes through the pan but was easily repaired.
Ron, wait til you get some sound insulation and the interior panels installed. Becomes pretty quiet and way more liveable. It becomes a very precise “412” sound that I always loved.
Bill |
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19super73 Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007 Posts: 4351 Location: Cité Soleil
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Over the past few weeks I've been working on the 412. The front seats are so complicated and weird in these cars! A few of the adjusting levers were bent, the horse hair padding was fried to a crisp, and the seat coils had cut through the foam. There were a few rips I had to sew. I found that I could buy rubberized hair padding online from a upholstery shop, and also foam padding - so I am starting to rebuild the seats, using the original seat covers.
I had to remove the dealer installed AC because it was all crap. I'll leave the under dash unit and reinstall the lower scoop, but remove all the hoses and wiring. It's such hackery garbage that it just needs to go. The old compressor weighs about 1,000 pounds, so it's going to be removed and stored in the shed. _________________ **SUPPORT THE SAMBA**
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Quote: |
I had to remove the dealer installed AC because it was all crap. I'll leave the under dash unit and reinstall the lower scoop, but remove all the hoses and wiring. It's such hackery garbage that it just needs to go. The old compressor weighs about 1,000 pounds, so it's going to be removed and stored in the shed. |
Hey Whobba,
I wanted to give you a suggestion, as you have a unique opportunity to resurrect a pretty rare piece of machinery, that works really well. Don't ditch the A/C. Roll with it if you can.
Let me give you a few arguments for keeping it:
1) Your car was VW's attempt to build a luxury (ok, semi-luxury) car. The fittings at the time were unheard of for a VW. Rolls Royce roller ball steering, independent suspension, a gas-fired heater that is 'programmable', unibody design, halogen headlights. We can go on and on. If you can keep all the bells and whistles it came with, you are doing yourself a HUGE favor in terms of it's future value.
2) You already have the necessary holes in the body for the refrigerant lines, electrics and condensate draining. Ask any T4 owner how much work it would be to add A/C. It's a mammoth undertaking. Lot's of drilling, cutting and wiring. I think the only thing VW did at the factory was run a wire to the engine compartment for the compressor clutch.
3) The T4 is the only stock air-cooled VW ever built that has a strong enough engine to run the old piston driven compressor without putting a significant strain on the engine. Although, I don't suggest using that compressor. More of that in a moment. Sure, the later bay windows have the 2.0 liter in it, but that engine is tasked with basically pushing a giant square-shaped windwall down the highway.
4) Your condenser is probably one of the most well-thought out configurations from a mounting standpoint in any T4. Many T4's had their spare tire wells hacked open, exposing the trunk to the road below with the exception of some crappy tape and plastic. At least on yours, they only cut two small holes in your trunk for the motor housings.
5) Your condenser is dual-motor. Most of them have a single motor configuration, which, IMHO, isn't sufficient enough to carry away heat when the car is idling, like at a traffic light.
There are a couple of things you can get to renew your existing system and have it blowing ice-cold air:
1) Get rid of that "1,000 pound" piston compressor, and replace it with a screw type model.
2) Get a new receiver/dryer. It mounts in the front wheel housing and the new ones are inexpensive. Plus, they will work with the new refrigerant.
3) Get a new set of refrigerant hoses. I have a vendor I can recommend who has the precise lengths of hoses you need.
4) If your evaporator (under the dash) is in bad shape, you can ship that off to the vendor I used and they will fix the plastic, renew the expansion valve, etc.
If you are like me and just can't drop a wad of $$ on an A/C system, think about getting only the hoses (and perhaps the compressor) and installing them. Once you have that infrastructure sitting there, you can slowly add the necessary parts to eventually get your system operational. If memory serves me, I did this project for around $675.
I'm sure whatever you do to your car is going to look great. However, I did want to give you another point of view, from a guy that has A/C in most of my VW's. We are all a team here and look out for each other.
Hope this helps.
-Ron
Quote: |
It's ugly, but I like it because it's ugly. |
--- One of my favorite quotes in this thread so far. _________________ 1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert
Last edited by ClassicCamper on Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Well said Ron. Good advice. Yes, ditch that “1,000 pound compressor”.
Bill |
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:30 am Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Hiya Brando,
This site has everything you need:
https://www.gilmore-enterprises.net/
They have the correct compressor and brackets that fit your engine. If memory serves me, they give you a stronger set of brackets that are different from the 1,000lb compressor you have. You can leave the pulley that is on the engine now. (the one between the fan and the crankcase.) That will work fine. Give them a call and ask for Ed -- they have the correct dimensions for the hoses you need. As far as help goes, I'm more than happy to assist any way possible. I put these systems on 4 ACVW's.
Good luck and reach out anytime you need anything. The most important thing to do with these systems is make sure that there are good grommets between the holes in the sheet metal and the hoses. If not, vibration alone will slice the hoses open pretty quickly. _________________ 1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Working on rebuilding and restuffing the front seats. Found some rolls of replacement horse hair padding that I cut to size, works great and way cheaper than buying and trying to retrofit WCM pads made for a different VW.
I used heavy twine to sew the pad to the seat frames around the edges, and also spray glued cotton padding inside the old seat covers with them turned inside out. Looks and fits like original.
Last photo, the old horse hair pads from the back rest - totally turned to dust.
Also lubed up the back rest recline mechanism, what a weird chain driven mechanism! Such complicated seats. I have to fix one of the side lever cables, since it's broken.
Padding Link: https://www.onlinefabricstore.com/1-x-24-rubberized-hair-.htm "Rubberized Hair"
[/img] _________________ **SUPPORT THE SAMBA**
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ubercrap Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004 Posts: 1060 Location: Ridley Park, PA
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Seats looking good! I think this is one of the coolest colors as well, it screams 1970s! I've seen some Minis come out a few years ago with an extremely similar color. _________________ '74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:53 am Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Working on the 412, it had been crashed and the nose section replaced at some time, but they did a bad job painting it, so the headlight sections were getting rusty. Removed all the external A/C parts, will replace the lower ABS scoop part after making a new section out of ABS to replace the condenser. Pretty weird cars; I always hated them when I was a kid - thinking they weren't a "real" VW - turns out they are the culmination of all the VW's - maybe the best of the air cooled cars, while certainly the last rear engine air cooled VW's to leave Wolfsburg. Got matching paint from Paintscratch.com. Also found the tin part (on TS) to replace the tin that was cut for the A/C compressor in the engine. I thought about rebuilding the A/C system, but it's too much money and I don't want to do it.
I removed and painted the weird shock bumper mounts black, one was pushed in 3-4 inches, so I will have to install it in a way that hides that - by pulling it back a bit. Trying not to replace every part, but keep it original and make do. It's easy to sink way too much money into this project, I'm trying to do it on a shoestring.
Two things I learned, ISP West will make a trim set including lower rocker trim, and WCM will make windshield seals if you send measurements. I'll let you know how those two things go as they happen.
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:07 am Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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Nice ride! Nice work!
As for the bumper shocks....well....they are not quite shocks. They take up some impact and are part of the 5mph crash bumper.
You "might" be able to use one from a 74 and on super beetle.
So, bear in mind that they are not really shocks and are designed to get compressed and destroyed on impact along with the soft aluminum 1974 bumper...to lessen the amount of chassis damage (at least that was the theory).
They are expendable...replaceable.... ...except now that you cannot get them they are NOT expendable. Icf nothing else, without them you cannot mount the bumper straight.
I have heard that others have been able to cut a hole in one and with some hammering ...get them to extend and then tack weld it extended ...and just use it as a bumper mount.
Or...look on the bumper shock and see if you can find a part #. There are some new ones available for super beetle. If they are teh same or close enough you might get lucky.
Here is a super beetle thread about "un-collapsing" the shock
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548108
Ray |
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whobba Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 871
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:29 am Post subject: Re: '74 412 On the Way |
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I painted the bumper shock mounts, but made sure to save the part number. I recall the super beetle bumper shock mounts are different, they have a bracket welded on.
With the 412, the shock slides into a pipe, so the bumper shock mount can be adjusted to be the same as the other side. Should be easy to get them to be the same length. _________________ **SUPPORT THE SAMBA**
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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