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twinfalls Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2003 Posts: 2133 Location: France
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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FEP ? PTFE ? Buna-N ?
May be it's more complex with layers of different materials.
Is there a commercial name ?
Where and who to ask that has the know how in this technology ? _________________ Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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steponmebbbboom Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 6390
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Why are you going this route again? Does the original diaphragm not have some plate riveted to it anyway? |
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Blaubus Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003 Posts: 5153
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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my understanding is that viton is the only gas proof material, and there might be some synthetic reinforcement imbedded into the rubber material. riveting that metal plate couldnt be easy, but i am beginning to believe it is best to learn how to improvise- or else find a company that already does this and arrange a small production run. beats the hell out of 160 for a new pump |
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steponmebbbboom Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 6390
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I think neoprene is also a safe bet... Viton has almost the consistency of nylon. You couldnt make a diaphragm with that stuff. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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steponmebbbboom wrote: |
I think neoprene is also a safe bet... Viton has almost the consistency of nylon. You couldnt make a diaphragm with that stuff. |
It's good for push rod tube o-rings. What am I missing?
A lot of engine rubber seals are made from nitrile. If you look at most fuel German hoses they will be marked NBR (which is also called nitrile, Buna N). I'd use that.
I'd like to see how you make out on this project. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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twinfalls Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2003 Posts: 2133 Location: France
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:04 am Post subject: |
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steponmebbbboom wrote: |
Why are you going this route again? Does the original diaphragm not have some plate riveted to it anyway? |
Because there is no repair kit for the 1800's pump. _________________ Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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steponmebbbboom Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 6390
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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hmm... my OG pump is rebuildable as well... I dont like the sealed ones. |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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Anyone have a clue on the following kit?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/121215514863?hash=item1c3901f8ef:g:k9QAAOSwOnVgT9F7
States...
"Now SUPPLIED WITH Radke Services Efuel Safe / Alcohol Resistant, Heavy Duty Extended Life Replacement Accelerator Pump Diaphragm for Weber 40-44 &48 IDF carburetors as well as EMPI HPMX 40&44's.
Both Early spring loaded and Late included.
Not just an excellent replacement for any regular grade of gasoline, This will stand up to the various ethanol mix fuels around the country as well as High Octane race fuels 110 + ." _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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ask Bill at Sparxwerks where he buys his kits. His webpage says "OEM Effbe rebuild kits." _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:14 am Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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Just ship it up Bill. It’s better to support someone doing this for others, even when you can do it, so that he is there for those who can’t. _________________ .ssS! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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To the original question from about a century ago.....yes....Viton (but which viton?) is one of the best for gasoline and Buna-N is second best (and which formulation of Buna-N).
In reality any of the fluoroinated rubbers will do well with gasoline. Very little else will.....and Neoprene will not work with gasoline.
With the addition of ethanol (which is said by SOME not a problem with viton).....and by other sources under the term ethyl alcohol.....to not be good for viton....and a few other chemicals like toluene which is poor for viton....diaphragm materials like this are typically multi-layer to increase burn though time across a wider range of fuels.
Its a gamble these days. Ray |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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Yes, Bill at Sparxfarts is your guy. Not only does his work exemplify the best quality available but his communication is outstanding and he ships fast. I’ve dealt with him many times and he is a good guy _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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Thanks for the nice words everyone.
Yes, I only install brand new Ethanol rated Effbe diaphragms on the dome top and square top type 1,2,3 and 4 fuel pumps.
I only rebuild the original Pierburg diaphragm assemblies after not being satisfied with any of the current reproduction fuel pump kits.
Effbe is the original diaphragm material supplier to Pierburg. They are still the best diaphragm material manufacturer today.
In the past few years, I rebuilt two different customers square top fuel pumps that were the original pumps on their 50 year old VW's. Both were the original owners of the VW's. Both fuel pumps still worked. They only had them rebuilt because they felt they got their money's worth after 50 years. Pretty impressive part for an economy car. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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OP is in France _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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I won’t hold that against him _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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I am using one of these .. built in Europe by SSP.
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/113127025f-fuel-pump-for-100mm-pushrod-alternator-type.html
I checked the pressure- its 3.5psi.
It helps I live in the UK.
It is somewhat too tall for a progressive carburettor intake manifold - I had to Dremel away the manifold and then re-seal it with a JB weld/fibre glass cloth composite structure. (cleaned around hole, smeared JB Weld, put layer of epoxy compatible woven fibre glass cloth on top, more JB Weld and then a piece of plastic bag on top, put fuel pump in place ... ) Protrudes maybe 1/16" into airway, and moulded perfectly round pump top.. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:20 am Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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The diaphragms available for purchase? _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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SGKent wrote: |
OP is in France |
The "OP" posted this 16 years ago. Maybe he's moved since then _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: What is the material used in fuel pump diaphragm ? |
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Glenn wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
OP is in France |
The "OP" posted this 16 years ago. Maybe he's moved since then |
Effbe is in France.
https://www.effbe-diaphragm.com/en/contact/ _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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