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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| CanStan wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Heck I know adults who cannot read or write hand writing!
They can print like a first grader and they can type........ but they cannot write.
They often have no concept of spelling, sentence structure or punctuation ( not that I excel at such things).
Research? In a library? With books? And paper? And pen? None of those skills what so ever.
Single minded thought is the rage today.
"What I need to know I watch on the internet." |
You can't completely blame an entire generation for what the previous generation taught them. You might be surprised to hear that our local school district (and many, many others) don't even teach cursive writing, and haven't for quite a few years. Most work is expected to be submitted through a computer (which edits spelling, punctuation and grammar automatically), and the majority of research articles quoted in a project must have internet links the teacher can verify.
So how does it make sense to vilify those younger generations if the older generations (yours and mine) are to blame? As useless and disappointing young people generally are to you, I'll bet your grandparents felt the same way about you. And their grandparents probably felt about them. Through the generations, language evolved, teaching methods evolved, and classroom subjects evolved.
I'm sure when calculators became commonplace in schools, the older generation was pissed that 'kids these days' don't know how to do math the 'old' way anymore. Although nobody that was in school and benefited from that advancement in technology saw themselves as degenerates who were ruining the world.
If it makes you feel better, the kids of today will eventually be upset at future generations for not being just like them. That's one thing that won't ever change. They will carry on the tradition of disappointing their parents. So find your zen in that. |
Huh?
And where did she come into this?
I never mentioned age at all.
Yet you went there instantly.
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3619
Location: CT
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Trust me, after living 10x your 7 years, your perspective on this changes. |
I’m sure it does. Maybe on tools, but not on manufacturing. Until the majority of people demand that we bring it back here then it isn’t going to happen. It’s all supply and demand and when the people demand cheap products with no care of quality, the supply is gonna be cheap stuff that they’ll buy.
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| KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future".  |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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CanStan
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| CanStan wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Heck I know adults who cannot read or write hand writing!
They can print like a first grader and they can type........ but they cannot write.
They often have no concept of spelling, sentence structure or punctuation ( not that I excel at such things).
Research? In a library? With books? And paper? And pen? None of those skills what so ever.
Single minded thought is the rage today.
"What I need to know I watch on the internet." |
You can't completely blame an entire generation for what the previous generation taught them. You might be surprised to hear that our local school district (and many, many others) don't even teach cursive writing, and haven't for quite a few years. Most work is expected to be submitted through a computer (which edits spelling, punctuation and grammar automatically), and the majority of research articles quoted in a project must have internet links the teacher can verify.
So how does it make sense to vilify those younger generations if the older generations (yours and mine) are to blame? As useless and disappointing young people generally are to you, I'll bet your grandparents felt the same way about you. And their grandparents probably felt about them. Through the generations, language evolved, teaching methods evolved, and classroom subjects evolved.
I'm sure when calculators became commonplace in schools, the older generation was pissed that 'kids these days' don't know how to do math the 'old' way anymore. Although nobody that was in school and benefited from that advancement in technology saw themselves as degenerates who were ruining the world.
If it makes you feel better, the kids of today will eventually be upset at future generations for not being just like them. That's one thing that won't ever change. They will carry on the tradition of disappointing their parents. So find your zen in that. |
Huh?
And where did she come into this?
I never mentioned age at all.
Yet you went there instantly. |
My apologies if that's not where you were going with it. I'm not sure who 'she' is, but my impression you complaint was based on age came from the fact you took issue with internet dependancy, inability to handwrite, and lack of library / book / pen / paper skills. All things that were commonplace in the past, but not as much anymore. So if it's not based on age, it must be based on passage of time and a changing / evolving world? Which still falls into the category of 'things aren't like they used to be' or in other words 'damn kids these days'. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Trust me, after living 10x your 7 years, your perspective on this changes. |
I’m sure it does. Maybe on tools, but not on manufacturing. Until the majority of people demand that we bring it back here then it isn’t going to happen. It’s all supply and demand and when the people demand cheap products with no care of quality, the supply is gonna be cheap stuff that they’ll buy. |
They are already here, you have to look for them.
For every pair of cheap shinola HF pliers you buy, you could spend about 2x and buy some Channelock made in Erie PA and still be using them 50 years later.
On talk radio, people who come in and claim some anonymous position of knowledge on a topic are making you the sucker
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CanStan
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| On talk radio, people who come in and claim some anonymous position of knowledge on a topic are making you the sucker |
But again I have to ask:
How is that any different than an Internet forum? Seriously, I don’t see how Bill from Tennessee calling into a radio show is more anonymous than Abscate from New York posting on forum? I’ve met neither of them before. I don’t think every radio caller is a phoney. And I don’t think every forum poster is an expert. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Look at rays posts on Viton gaskets. You can go to about six independent web sources and find his information validated.
The talk radio guy above claiming to be under nda from some government agency can’t be independently verified and so the source is unknown. The claims made can’t be verified.
Such information is near useless.
The usual tactic of shock media is presenting a position held by 995 experts in equal time to one of the 5 outliers. Invariably, they have an agenda at work beyondselling “ newspapers”
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31360
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| CanStan wrote: |
| You might be surprised to hear that our local school district (and many, many others) don't even teach cursive writing |
I curse at cursive. But I curse at just about ##^&&*%$#%^*&*(%@#%&*&^##$^ everything !!!!
And the nerve of folks to call me The Cusser !!!
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Jon Schmid
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012
Posts: 2038
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Trust me, after living 10x your 7 years, your perspective on this changes. |
I’m sure it does. Maybe on tools, but not on manufacturing. Until the majority of people demand that we bring it back here then it isn’t going to happen. It’s all supply and demand and when the people demand cheap products with no care of quality, the supply is gonna be cheap stuff that they’ll buy. |
They are already here, you have to look for them.
For every pair of cheap shinola HF pliers you buy, you could spend about 2x and buy some Channelock made in Erie PA and still be using them 50 years later.
On talk radio, people who come in and claim some anonymous position of knowledge on a topic are making you the sucker |
I represent that remark.  Seriously, I have my HF "tools" for light duty work and my 50+ YO drop forged Craftsman tools for my "real" jobs. The right tool for the job, I suppose... |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| ^^^^^ sure it’s like being a little bit pregnant ^^^^^^^^ |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12703
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Maybe the biggest difference between what our grandparents did and what people do now is this modern entitled expectation. We feel we are entitled to:
Consume as much energy as we like.
Accumulate as much goods as we want.
And do it all at a faster rate than our neighbor to prove our "success" in life.
That is the real basis for the crass consumerism that is eating up the world's resources at an exponential rate and polluting the planet.
Our grandparents were not caught up in that web. Mine didn't even have power in their house until later in life. If the power is off here for 30 seconds the phone lines to the power company are jammed with irate people!
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Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Look at rays posts on Viton gaskets. You can go to about six independent web sources and find his information validated.
The talk radio guy above claiming to be under nda from some government agency can’t be independently verified and so the source is unknown. The claims made can’t be verified.
Such information is near useless.
The usual tactic of shock media is presenting a position held by 995 experts in equal time to one of the 5 outliers. Invariably, they have an agenda at work beyondselling “ newspapers” |
Good grief. Of course that particular caller can't be verified while he's on the radio. Internet links don't pop out of the radio and appear on your heads up display.
But the information can be verified or disqualified after doing research yourself.
So the information isn't useless. It's something to think about and INVESTIGATE.
Once upon a time we openly shared ideas and information. It was up to the listener to decide for themselves if they wanted to agree, disagree, or postpone judgement until more information was available.
Because you may not agree with the information the caller stated, or just because it wasn't "fact-checked" in real time doesn't make the information useless.
Now, again, I'm not saying I agree with the caller. I was only relaying information about EV's to add to the discussion. Everyone needs to do their own due diligence and find out for themselves if they think it may be of consequence to them. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12703
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I have worked around many 400 to 600 HP 3 phase electric motors in the last 20 years. Sometimes for all day, sometimes only for an hour or two. I feel fine, does that count?
Well ok, I'm a little off in the head as I spend too much time and money on useless 50 year old air cooled cars... and related forums!
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
I have worked around many 400 to 600 HP 3 phase electric motors in the last 20 years. Sometimes for all day, sometimes only for an hour or two. I feel fine, does that count?
Well ok, I'm a little off in the head as I spend too much time and money on useless 50 year old air cooled cars... and related forums! |
Me too. Certainly your personal experience counts but not to those who are ignorant. |
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Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
I have worked around many 400 to 600 HP 3 phase electric motors in the last 20 years. Sometimes for all day, sometimes only for an hour or two. I feel fine, does that count?
Well ok, I'm a little off in the head as I spend too much time and money on useless 50 year old air cooled cars... and related forums! |
I've been a smoker for 25 years and don't have cancer, feel fine, and recently went hiking at 10k feet elevation. Cigarettes are perfectly safe right?  |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12703
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Point taken, the human body is for the most part pretty resilient. All I am saying is considering a Beetle takes 40 HP to go 72 mph so an electric car should not be any more inefficient than that. The EMF levels would not stop me from driving one.
Then again I have a sibling who will not use a cell phone because the EMF levels are too high and will give you brain cancer.
To each his own...
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| There is no reason to buy anything from there. |
Um, yeah there is. They make cheap products. It's that simple. We don't like to pay ridiculous prices for things as it is, now let's say that product that was $200 now was made in the US. It would be even more expensive. Why am I gonna pay $500 for an item that is $200 from China? Is the quality gonna be that different? Doubt it. Does this apply to everything? No, but most consumer products, it does in my opinion. |
When the lowest price is the first consideration, then quality goes away. You have to look for quality. The first thing I do is look at where the item was made and that's because China has a reputation for making junk. People are happy to replace the item multiple times because it's simply like buying an item on time. They can afford to pay $100 five times for an item that will last 6 months instead of paying $500 up front for one that will last them for years. My grandparents paid cash for anything they bought and they bought the best they could afford, not the cheapest. They were not wealthy but when they made a purchase, they expected it to last a lifetime. They bought a new car every 15 years and owned one house. Today, we expect to replace everything and that's because most everything made is a throw away item. |
Exactly, so that’s why we buy things from China. The average consumer doesn’t care. They are the MAJORITY. People that will only buy made in America are a very small percentage in the big picture. When your average consumer doesn’t make enough to buy the $500 whatever so they buy the cheaper one that’s the demand right there. They want the cheaper product because it doesn’t make sense financially to spend $500 on an item. I would never expect anything to last a lifetime, even if it was made here. Our manufacturing isn’t superior to China, it would just cost more in my opinion. The Chinese are very capable of making a quality item, but that’s not where the demand is and so they are told to make it cheaper. I’ll give you an example right here, now this is tools, but still. My coworker has a full set of Matco combination wrenches. Right around $400. I have a set of Husky wrenches with some HF thrown in, way cheaper. I’ve NEVER heard of someone breaking a wrench. So if I broke one, I can run down to Harbor Freight, buy another FULL set for $26, replace the one and now I have a whole other set of spares. This is now two sets of wrenches for far less than one set of Matco’s. This is just an example and some tools I wouldn’t buy from HF but you get the idea. The consumer makes the demands and companies respond to that. If Americans start saying we’ll pay $500 for a made in USA toaster, maybe GE will listen, but we won’t so it won’t happen. |
Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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And back on topic, CNG/LNG were always the REAL solution, but never got any traction for whatever reason- I suppose they were suffocated by oil lobbyists
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1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world. |
Sure, but there are more of them on the road than any other 50+ year old car.
How many 1960s and early 70s Cadillacs do you see on the road?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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