Wiring issues... bringing back a long sleeping '69 Beetle.

[radbug69]

So I have been pulling the '69 Beetle back to nearly road ready, sorting through some wiring issues which are to be expected after a long nap.

Is there a "Common Ground" for the electrical system besides the battery ground strap...?

I have removed all the fuses and cleaned the contacts on the fuse block and replaced all the fuses with new. I went through E.v.e.r.y. connector on the back side of the fuse block, cleaned, used Deoxit D5 Cleaner, lightly wired brushed the contacts etc. Put the wire connectors back on.

Now, what happens for example is:
The lights all work although I have not seen the brake lights illuminate or reverse lights. That last thing is not a show stopper but this next thing is.

The directionals work UNTIL I pull the lights on and then the front ones do not. The front running lights seem brighter than they should be with the light switch pulled out. And again, with the lights out, the directionals work fine, both front and rear.

Sorry to be so long winded.

Any idea what is going on here...? Thanks for any advice here.

Best,
Rob

Old Blue...

Fuse block...

Fuse block connector bar... this is "Before" and the rats nest is really not as bad as it looks. The wiring actually cleaned up well.

[mukluk]

[radbug69]

[radbug69]

@mukluk,
Bingo..!

I started with the left side and the switch worked, lights AND directionals however, in pulling the rubber boot back to have a look-see I pulled two of the three connectors off and when I first put it all back I kept blowing a fuse... what the...?

Well I had inadvertently attached the ground on one of the lighting lugs. Doh...!

When I figured that part out, we were good to go.

I appreciate the feedback.


========


On a slightly different note, is there a preference on which type of main ground strap to use...?

The negative side battery strap is a braided wire strap and one spot on it is a little green...

Is the braided type good or should I go with a coated copper strap...?

Thanks,
Rob

[ryohey]

The braided strap is fine.
_________________
69 bug restoration thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=387230&highlight=

[Multi69s]

The green is from corrosion. Take the strap out of the car, and put it in a bucket with a mixture of baking soda and water. This will neutralize the acid. Let it sit for an hour or so. them rinse with water and inspect it. If it looks structurally sound, you are good to go.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Cusser]

[radbug69]

[Buggeee]

In addition to the battery ground strap, there is a similar braided strap between the nose cone of the transaxle and the body of the car. When that is resistant, ground will find some other way to make it back to the body. In a Vanagon I found a melted emergency brake cable that had somehow been roped into service.

That is a really nice Bug.
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[mukluk]

[radbug69]

[radbug69]

[sb001]

My 69 was wired the same way from the factory at the fuse block- solid black wire coming off #2 fuse going to the brake switches. I think VW factory may have gotten ahead of themselves a bit since this is correct for 1970.

The 69 model year originally used a 3-switch master cylinder--two of those switches were for the dual-circuit brake system, and the 3rd switch controlled the dash warning light. If you look at the 69 wiring diagram that mukluk posted above, you'll see three switches- J3 were the dual-circuit brake light switches and J6 was the dash warning light switch. You'll also notice that each of these switches has two prongs.
However, VW figured out that they didn't need that 3rd dash warning light switch- they could simply use two 3-prong switches instead of three 2-prong switches and still achieve the same result, so starting with 1970 model year they started using a master cylinder with only two switches, and each of the three wires (black, black/red, and red) simply "splits" and goes to each switch. See this Speedy Jim diagram for a visual reference:

http://www.speedyjim.net/schem/2brake.gif

In this configuration, the solid black wire comes off fuse #2, and carries power from fuse block down to the switches. The black/red wire carries power out back up into the trunk, through a connector, and through the main harness back to the brake lights. And the solid red wire carries power back up into the trunk, through another connector, and up to the dash-mounted brake warning light. See 1970 diagram here (note only two brake switches marked "F" in the diagram):

So everything you show in your photo above appears to be correct.

Since you say your wiring loom that connects to the switches only has two prongs, it sounds like you still have the original 69 wiring. My guess is your master cylinder was replaced at some point and you now have two 3-prong brake switches that someone just didn't connect together (and the loom hanging loose is probably the old loom that went to that 3rd brake warning light switch no longer used in your replacement master cylinder.) If this is the case, I bet your dash warning light doesn't work...?
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[radbug69]

sb001

I will need to raise the car in the morning to look up into the area where the switches are. I know one is a dual prong and that is all I can see right now.
There are two sets of wire connectors that are near the left/front of the car near the only switch that I can positively ID.

The fellow that installed the new dropped front axle may have omitted one or, as you mention, the master may have been changed, I do not know... yet.

Also, if the dash warning light that you are speaking of is the little red push button in the top/middle of the dash, yes, that does work.

So, it sounds as if the issue and resolve is dependent on the number of switches and subsequent leads to them.

Baby steps to getting this rig back on the road...

Back soon.
Thanks,
Rob

[Dan the workingstiff]

My 69 has grounds and connection blocks behind the tarboards on both sides in the engine compartment. My rubber grommet in the pass through hole is gone and lots of road dust has made quite a layer of dirt back there. I can't see how the ground back there wouldn't be corroded.
_________________
'69 Beetle
'66 FG buggy
My other air-cooled's
'76 IH 1200
'75 IH 1200

[radbug69]

[Lingwendil]

[mukluk]

Raising the car with the jack under the engine can damage the rear transaxle mounts, and raising the car with the jack under the transaxle can damage the front transaxle mount or possibly even break the transaxle nose cone.

The best location to jack the rear of the car as noted above is at the rear of the tunnel where it splits into the two frame horns, just make sure you don't also snag the front trans mount with your block of wood. If you only need to jack up one side of the rear, place the jack under the rear torsion housing.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[radbug69]

Ok, copy all on the jacking point.
Thanks,
Rob

=================

So, one of those good news/bad news deals...

I just now found a few minutes to investigate the brake light switches. Wicked cold day here with fresh snow...

I found two dual connector switches on the master cylinder and one extra wire with a boot with a taped-up connector of some type, I did not remove the tape to see what type of connector it is.

However, after cleaning the switch posts and the female connectors and putting them back onto the switches and then stepping on the brake pedal, no blown fuse...! Yay.

That alone is a win so I will go through and check/replace bulbs and look for corroded grounds out back to see why the brake lights do not illuminate.

One thing that bugs me is that extra wire up front. I'll take the time to unwrap it and check on the color.

More later,
Thanks all.
Rob

[radbug69]