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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Update: Bus is alive once again and drove me to work today for about a 60 mile round trip. All is seemingly well except that when I let go of the gas pedal the oil pressure light comes on and it’ll stay on unless I apply the smallest amount of pressure to the accelerator pedal. I’m not positive on the issue but I would love to hear from more experienced minds on the issue if possible. Thanks |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Adjust the throttle arm screw for now. Probably best to run thru the tune up and see if that helps increase RPMs at idle. Then readjust the throttle arm screw.
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Hey everyone just tried starting the bus up tonight and after a few tries with no luck it seemed I had drained the battery. So I hooked up some jumper cables and turned it over once more and instead of turning over strong it still seemed like the battery had no juice so I figured it must be a starter issue. After trying to start it with the cables there was a strong smell like something was burning so I pulled the starter and that seems to be where the smell was coming from. So now I’m thinking I definitely need a new starter but is there any other issues I need to be worried about before putting in a new starter and trying to fire her up once again. Thanks for the help. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Help. Currently in a war with the bus and as it stands I am losing. I replaced my starter and turned the car over and sounds like it’s spinning but not engaging the flywheel. I just need some more experienced minds to help me out here if possible. The bus plus college plus teaching 1st graders all day has turned out to be quite a bit for me to handle as of late and could really use some guidance. I have not given up on this old lady yet but each passing day she makes me feel like My first car should’ve been a stupid camry not a vw bus.
Sorry For the rant,
A tired man with a beautiful car |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
Help. Currently in a war with the bus and as it stands I am losing. I replaced my starter and turned the car over and sounds like it’s spinning but not engaging the flywheel. I just need some more experienced minds to help me out here if possible. The bus plus college plus teaching 1st graders all day has turned out to be quite a bit for me to handle as of late and could really use some guidance. I have not given up on this old lady yet but each passing day she makes me feel like My first car should’ve been a stupid camry not a vw bus.
Sorry For the rant,
A tired man with a beautiful car |
Did you buy a starter for a 61 Bus or a 67 Bus? 6V and 12V vehicles had different tooth counts on the flywheel and take the matching starter. |
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j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9790
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
Help. Currently in a war with the bus and as it stands I am losing. I replaced my starter and turned the car over and sounds like it’s spinning but not engaging the flywheel. I just need some more experienced minds to help me out here if possible. The bus plus college plus teaching 1st graders all day has turned out to be quite a bit for me to handle as of late and could really use some guidance. I have not given up on this old lady yet but each passing day she makes me feel like My first car should’ve been a stupid camry not a vw bus.
Sorry For the rant,
A tired man with a beautiful car |
Did you buy a starter for a 61 Bus or a 67 Bus? 6V and 12V vehicles had different tooth counts on the flywheel and take the matching starter. |
This^
Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon your mood and desires, you are dealing with a vehicle which is over 55 years old. Figuring out which parts are needed to effect repairs can be difficult, due to the age, but also due to the multitude of possible changes made to the bus by previous owners over the years. It can be rewarding to keep an ancient vehicle on the road, but you have to have a level of perseverance to keep at it.
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7050
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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there is a lot to be learned from pulling the motor and looking at both the flywheel, and the transmission.
counting the teeth on the flywheel is much easier when the motor is out....
measuring the diameter requires the motor to be out.
You can also see your clutch (diameter and type)
throw-out bearing, too
you can see the condition of everything.
Oh, and you can get to the starter really well, too. starter bushing, etc
write all the information down, take some pictures. That way, when you run into future issues, say with your clutch, you already know what you need to buy. So you don't have to wait until it fails on the side of the road to have spare parts handy.
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Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
Did you buy a starter for a 61 Bus or a 67 Bus? 6V and 12V vehicles had different tooth counts on the flywheel and take the matching starter. |
Plus for the bushing that supports the rear of the armature shaft of the starter there are two different sized bushings on the inside, and two different sized on the outside dimension. Mixing up bushing sizes or installing wrong starter to the bushing already installed can result in a too loose of bushing. This in turn can damage the starter insides by allowing them to rub together, as the armature inside flails around inside.
If you have the old starter you can measure the tip of the shaft where it goes into the bushing and see if it matches the new starter shaft size.
There are also starters that do not use a bushing in the transaxle to support the rear of the starter shaft. Instead they have both bushings inside the starter and are called self-supporting. While most of these starters are 12 volt, some are 6 volt, but those are far and few between.
Other way to sort this out if you do not have the old starter is to remove the starter and count the teeth of the flywheel thru the starter hole. Mark a tooth to start counting, and if you are bad at counting or have to crawl out to turn the engine if you do not have a helper to turn it for you mark every ten teeth. 109 teeth for 6 volt and 130 for 12 volt. A 6 volt starter will work fine on 12 volt, if the 6 volt solenoid is replaced with a 12 volt solenoid. A 6 volt solenoid will hammer too much on the flywheel teeth if used on 12 volt.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
Help. Currently in a war with the bus and as it stands I am losing. I replaced my starter and turned the car over and sounds like it’s spinning but not engaging the flywheel. I just need some more experienced minds to help me out here if possible. The bus plus college plus teaching 1st graders all day has turned out to be quite a bit for me to handle as of late and could really use some guidance. I have not given up on this old lady yet but each passing day she makes me feel like My first car should’ve been a stupid camry not a vw bus.
Sorry For the rant,
A tired man with a beautiful car |
Totally understand the rant, but you need to do more research and ask questions before leaping. We would have suggested to see if you could diagnose the problem before just stuffing in a new starter. Knew one fellow who replaced over $300.00 of electrical parts back in the 1990s (battery, starter, alternator, etc.) only to find he just needed a $15.00 battery ground cable. Most of the time all the grounds and wiring connections need to be cleaned and dielectric greased to remove multiple voltage drops. Plus soldering internal connections in the fuse box and headlight switch to remove voltage drops inside of those. Next getting the factory style battery cables from Wolfburg West. These cables are a bit more expensive than ones you can get from your FLAPS, but they have the cable clamps soldered onto the cables so no way the acid from the battery can get into those and cause corrosion. Plus the WW battery clamps last much longer due to being made of brass, just do not over tighten them. You just need them snug enough that you can not turn them by hand on the terminal. Also so many VW owners do not know about the ground cable from the transaxle nose cone to the body. Seen those missing, broken, loose, or most often all corroded up, so again requiring a good cleaning up and dielectric greasing.
Yes a Camry would be nice, but you would most likely not be able to tune it up, let alone fix it if something bigger broke. Then it would cost you an arm and a leg at the repair shop. An ACVW is a lot simpler, and is one of the best/easiest automobiles to get your experience in learning how to fix anything.
Do clean the surfaces that the starter and transaxle mate together, that is the only ground for the starter! Add a little dielectric grease to keep corrosion away for as long as possible from forming due to water and oxygen getting into that area.
Do same with the starter solenoid by undoing the two screws that hold it to the starter. That will keep the ground between the two from getting corroded there.
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Thanks for the help everyone I have a 6v flywheel on my engine and I got a 6v starter to match. Also I do know about the bushings so I got a self supporting starter so I didn’t have to deal with swapping bushing while laying under the bus. Also I changed the trans ground cable as well as my battery ground because I too first thought those would be a key component in the problems with my old starter. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Then it might be the starter solenoid came loose of the lever/fork inside the starter that shifts the gear in the starter to the rear and into engaging the flywheel gear.
Do post an image of the starter, especially showing the solenoid. Might be a simple removal of the solenoid to get it meshed with the lever fork.
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Ok I’ll post a picture as soon as I can. I just need to pull it back out which I was planning on doing today or tomorrow anyway. I’ll report back with some new photos. |
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adam beefcake bruno
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2000
Posts: 246
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Thanks for the help everyone I have a 6v flywheel on my engine and I got a 6v starter to match. Also I do know about the bushings so I got a self supporting starter so I didn’t have to deal with swapping bushing while laying under the bus. |
Where did you find a self-supporting 6v starter?! The self-supporting were originally for automatic transmission buses, vanagons, type 3, etc. And I know there weren't any 6v automatic cars. Obviously it's an after-market starter...I just honestly didn't know they existed.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| adam beefcake bruno wrote: |
Where did you find a self-supporting 6v starter?! The self-supporting were originally for automatic transmission buses, vanagons, type 3, etc. And I know there weren't any 6v automatic cars. Obviously it's an after-market starter...I just honestly didn't know they existed. |
Garbe Lahmeyer
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457292&highlight=garbe+lahmeyer
Also check in the 1963-67 VW workshop manual. Has the same 6 volt self supported starter type shown in the electrical section.
Saxomat was a precursor for the 1968 and later Auto-Stick transaxles in the type 1s.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc...=titleonly
Guessing that maybe the GL self supporting starter was for Saxomat. Definitely was used for any transaxle that might have had the starter bushing bore damaged.
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| That is a starter for a 12 volt flywheel. You need IMI-105 which is a 12 volt starter with a 6 volt drive gear. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
| That is a starter for a 12 volt flywheel. You need IMI-105 which is a 12 volt starter with a 6 volt drive gear. |
Thanks for the catch turns out I was sent the wrong starter by accident. So hopefully when the new one gets here everything will be ok. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Hey turns out that they stamp 101N on their 105 starters as well but I’ll update back to see if it is actually an incorrect one or not.
Last edited by VanillaGorilla11 on Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Hey turns out that they stamp 101N on there 105 starters as well but I’ll update back to see if it is actually an incorrect one or not. |
Compare starter gears on the two starters you have....
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