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Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

Just in case there are any other total Thing dummies out there in the audience who have been or are attaching or reinstalling with the Type 181 Thing stock oil-bath air cleaner, here are a couple of images that I hope CLEARLY indicate the various fittings to the Thing's vertically arrayed oil-bath air cleaner.

If you're wondering why I do this, it's because sometimes even the simplest things (that everyone with more experience else takes for granted) need to be explained in simple terms (for people like me). Hopefully these will help explain what goes where, in terms of the 1) air cleaner vacuum valve, 2) the air cleaner thermal sensor, 3) the pre-heated air inlet (from Cylinder #2 site), the fuel emissions vapor (charcoal canister) inlet and 4) the connections between vacuum valve & thermo-switch all go. You'd be surprised how few diagrams exist showing all this.

For me this serves as a sort of personal VW Thing 'dairy', or notes to myself about what goes where. Hopefully some other 'lost souls' will stumble across these when facing similar similar perplexities. Confused

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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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perello
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

recently I put a new thermostatic and vacuum valve, and the behavior I see goes like this:

I start the engine, without pressing the gas pedal. Starts smooth at a constant rev. I can check the vacuum valve is actuating and the incoming air comes from the hose that goes to the engine.


If I touch the gas pedal, the lid opens and air comes from the top air filter inlet.


Is that the way it works?


I just wonder why it needs "warm" air from the engine if the carburetor at that point is being closed by the auto choke?
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

Where did you find that part?

perello wrote:
recently I put a new thermostatic and vacuum valve, and the behavior I see goes like this:

I start the engine, without pressing the gas pedal. Starts smooth at a constant rev. I can check the vacuum valve is actuating and the incoming air comes from the hose that goes to the engine.


If I touch the gas pedal, the lid opens and air comes from the top air filter inlet.


Is that the way it works?


I just wonder why it needs "warm" air from the engine if the carburetor at that point is being closed by the auto choke?
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perello
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
Where did you find that part?


the vacuum actuator here:

https://en.hoffmann-speedster.com/type-181-thing/e...r-type-181

the sensor was a lucky one-off a car parts distributor had in germany.
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

Excellent parts source! Thanks for that input! Dancing
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----------------------
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[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

perello wrote:
recently I put a new thermostatic and vacuum valve, and the behavior I see goes like this:

I start the engine, without pressing the gas pedal. Starts smooth at a constant rev. I can check the vacuum valve is actuating and the incoming air comes from the hose that goes to the engine.


If I touch the gas pedal, the lid opens and air comes from the top air filter inlet.


Is that the way it works?


I just wonder why it needs "warm" air from the engine if the carburetor at that point is being closed by the auto choke?


The sooner your get warm air to the engine the faster you can set the choke to open, saving fuel and lessening the washdown of the oil on the cylinder walls.

Choke = BAD
Warm air = GOOD

The valve is a three step affair:

Full cold - valve acts as a check valve keeping the flapper in the snorkel in the hot air position continuously.

Moderately cold - valve allows manifold vacuum to reach flapper dash pot so the flapper is in the hot air position at idle and other times when the manifold vacuum is high, but is in the cold position when the throttle is opened sufficiently wide.

Warm - valve prevents manifold vacuum from building up in flapper dash pot, so the flapper stays in the cold air position at all times.
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perello
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
manifold vacuum


I guess the different behavior is because i get the vacuum from the carburetor.

I guess I need to get it from the manifold itself.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

perello wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
manifold vacuum


I guess the different behavior is because i get the vacuum from the carburetor.

I guess I need to get it from the manifold itself.


The vacuum retard nipple on the carb is manifold vacuum, while the vacuum advance nipple is "ported" vacuum.

It is critical to the operation of the valve that the hoses attached to it are attached to the correct orientations as well.

The valves are often filled with gunk and thus don't operate properly, but they can be taken apart and cleaned easily enough. The two "screws" are loctited in place so measure their depth before removing them as their depth affects the temperature the valve works at. A new valve would probably be worth buying.
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perello
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

right, I am using the advance "ported" vacuum.

I have a way to use a direct connection to the manifold, but I need to do a fitting with an american thread (not easy on here).

Yeah I do have new valve and actuator.

Thanks!
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perello
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

i managed to source a 1/8" NPT fitting, so now vacuum comes from the manifold....

... behaves as expected, super smooth start on cold weather.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Mysteries of the Type 181 oil-bath air cleaner revealed Reply with quote

Back when I bought my first '73 Thing, circa 1977, I had a lot of trouble with the crankcase ventilation hose filling with engine snot, at which point the engine would begin to blow oil. The oils of that time were noted for doing this and it was very important to have enough slope to any ventilation hoses so that the snot buildup would drain back into the engine after shutdown instead of being trapped in the hoses, something the stock Thing set up did not have.

There are several things one can do here. Using a hose with a molded in bend at the air cleaner helps or you can find a nipple with a sharp ~90° bend to braze into the air cleaner versus the stock fitting pointing down. You can also move the fitting to a place higher up on the air cleaner as per the fitting for the fuel vapor purge or install it in the side of the snorkel instead of the bottom.

On my first '73 I went with a nipple with a sharper bend and on my present one I took the original molded hose with a 90° bend and shortened the already short leg going upward at the air cleaner so I have the most possible slope. I plan to move the nipple into the side of the snorkel at some point, but have yet to do so.
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