Subaru Swap or Powerhaus 2332

[67sash]

I am on the cusp of deciding on a motor for my new hightop build on a 69. I have done so much research, I have stalled my thought process out. SO...curious what the brain trust at TheSamba think.

[richparker]

Gonna be a tough crowd here. I bet more people vote for The Subie.

I on the other hand still like to keep my Aircooled Volkswagens Aircooled. What’s the specs on the 2332? Case, crank, cam, rods, compression, bearings, heads, cooling, t-stat, carbs, clutch, exhaust? Like all the specs. Just because it’s big, doesn’t mean it’s built with quality parts. Unless it’s got a radical cam and high compression, I highly doubt that 2332 will make 175hp at the wheels tho. And those are two things will you don’t really want in a large displacement bus engine. 8.0 to 8.5:1 compression would be preferred because it keeps temps down and something like a 110 or 120 cam gives you nice low end power to get the bus moving. Realistically your gonna drive between 3500 and 4000 rpms, so you don’t want a cam that makes power at 5500. You want something that runs out of power at 4500, it’s all about the torque in the bus.

Personally, I have a CB speced 2275 in my bus and I LOVE it! It’s well built, balanced, has good power, gets good millage and is a blast to drive. Everyone wants something different out of their VW experience, what do you want?
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’71 Westy build
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[67sash]

I want to move down the road at 65 but pass when I want to. I would like to pull 500lbs at times and I would like to be at 35-40 say going over the Tetons. Longevity and torque to get the hightop off the line are concerns. I am very confident in the Powerhaus product. I am very confident in the person I chose for the Subaru swap. The swap is about twice the cost, so I am wondering what am I getting for that extra cost that I couldn't get out of a top notch vw powerplant.


Powerhaus build sheet below. I would also run a suggested SS exhaust, remote oil cooler w/ thermostat, and suggested fuel pump and filter.

100% BRAND NEW PARTS- Not Rebuilt & No Core Needed

ENGINE CASE- Autolinea Aluminum Super Case, Full Flow, Shuffle Pin
CRANKSHAFT- 84mm 4340 Chromoly Counter Weighted, 8 Dowel
RODS- H-Beam, Chevy Journal, 5/16 ARP Bolts
CAMSHAFT- Engle or Scat with Steel Straight Cut Gears
LIFTERS- Scat Light Weight
FLYWHEEL- 8 Dowel Forged Chromoly Lighten
GLAND NUT- Scat Chromoly with Washer
MAIN BEARINGS- Standard Steel Center
ROD BEARINGS- Standard Clevite
CAM BEARINGS- Double Thrust
OIL PUMP- PH 30mm Cast with Billet Full Flow Cover
DEEP SUMP- 1.5 Quart
OIL PLATE- PH Billet Aluminum O-Ring
HEAD STUDS- Chromoly with Nuts
PISTONS & CYLINDERS- 94mm with C-Clip Retainers
PUSHROD TUBES- PH Billet Double O-Ring
HEADS- PH 42x37 CNC Ported, Stainless Valves, 12mm Spark Plug Holes
PUSHRODS- Manton Chromoly
ROCKERS- PH Forged 1.25 Ratio
VALVE COVER- Heavy Duty Aluminum or Empi GT Channel
GASKETS- German Complete
BALANCED ROTATING ASSEMBLY
CARBURETION- Dual 44IDF Weber Carburetors,Hex Bar Linkage,Manifolds,Chrome Air Cleaners,Fuel Hose
SHEET METAL- Black or Chrome Doghouse Fan Shroud,Front,Rear,Pulley & Dual Port Cylinder Tins,Breast Plate
CHARGING- 12Volt Alternator,Billet Pulley & Nut,Stainless Steel Strap,Welded Fan,Lower Crank Pulley Nut
UPGRADES INCLUDED- Black Laser Aluminum Crank Pulley,Billet Fuel Pump Block,Billet Dip Stick,Billet Filler Neck
IGNITION- Magna Spark Distributor,Billet Clamp,Dry Pack Coil,8mm Spark Plug Wires
OIL COOLING- Doghouse Oil Cooler,Oil Pressure Sender

EXHAUST AND CLUTCH KITS ARE NOT INCLUDED, PLEASE E-MAIL OR CALL WITH SPECIFIC YEAR, MAKE AND MODEL SO WE CAN SET YOU UP WITH THE CORRECT SYSTEM

[67sash]

Oh, and my transmission is a 6 rib built by Rancho. Super diff, new ring and pinion, 2nd, and 4th.

I also understand that horsepower isn't at the tires, but the upgrade for the additional weight is what I was underscoring. No matter what I do, the transmission is going to be the weakest link. I understand this. Rancho said the next step up starts at $7500 and probably ends around the $11K range. I already have this transmission built and am going to run it. If weight is the enemy, and the transmission is the weakness.....then why pay double for the Subaru swap????

[skills@eurocarsplus]

dollar for dollar you can't beat a subaru. real obd2 FI, 170 horse and support from every dealer in the USA.

2.5 short blocks are still about 1800 from the dealer. add another 1k to have your heads fully rebuilt... i mean valves, guides, seals etc and there is no way you are building that kind of HP for 2800 in aircooled form.

now granted, you'll need a regeared trans and a cooling system but cruising 70+ turning 3300 rpms is a beautiful thing. you can literally talk to the guy in the back seat...not yell, talk.

DIY subaru conversions with a regeared trans seem to be in the 5-7k range. i have yet to meet someone who regretted their decision
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

also i'd go 2.5 not 2.2

2.2's are ok, but long in the tooth and the idle air control setup is a pain in the ass.

you should be able to change your ring and pinion. 11k for a trans? no fucking way. Matt Steedle will to a top shelf regear for about 3k
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[67sash]

[richparker]

Skills is right, the Subie is better. But it’s not for everyone, just yet anyway.

I just did a quick search and it looks like that Powerhouse engine is $8500. No offense, but for that kind of money I’d by buying a Pat Downs built CB turn key engine. At least then you'd know you got all high end parts and a competent builder.

https://www.cbperformance.com/default.asp
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[67sash]

[richparker]

The powerhouse build sheet leaves a lot to be desired.

Try Arizona Transaxle for one if you need one. $11k is silky.
_________________
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[67sash]

[67sash]

I should state, the next step up on the transmission would be a Mendeola. Just to be clear.

[67sash]

Just called CB Performance. Pat Downs has retired and CB is unsure if they will be building and selling turnkey motors. Currently not building or selling motors.

[Anchovy]

[richparker]

[67sash]

Rich, I would be interested in your build sheet thoughts. Skills you too. Or anyone that has an opinion.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

i don't know why you'd be looking at a mendeola trans. i literally have 15+ swaps done on a regeared vw trans, from 002's to 091's and not one transmission failure

i beat mine like a rented mule. everyone else drives conservatively and just changes the gear oil on a regular basis.

your 16-18k number is having it done by a shop. like i said, DIY is far less and honestly that 16-18k number is out the window with what's been going on in the country these days.

for me, it isn't worth building aircooled stuff anymore unless it's for myself...even then the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

i have 2 conversions slated for this year, and possibly a 3rd. it's all preference, but everyone i have spoken to is tired of having their trips knocked out by engine issues.

some guys get away with just shoving new parts into a new case and having ok results which is fine, but for the cost of stuff...

an empty 1600 case is over 1k once you ship it. decent heads another 1k+ you have already spent more than a brand new factory shortblock and you still need a crank, cam, pistons, lifters etc.

a bunch of years ago i did a 1904 for my camper. nice little engine. did it myself. cost me 5k out of pocket and about 80 hours to build. not worth it to me anymore

it all depends on your expectations. want dead nuts get in and go with just oil changes for the next 70k? go subaru. if you want to dick with carbs, timing and valve adjustments every 3k go air cooled
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[airschooled]

I've driven both. 2x cost for an engine 4x as good is a no brainer.

Further Performance in the twin cities will set you up nicely.

For those in the market these days, Powerhaus doesn't include the clutch kit or exhaust for $8500. Add another 1-2k for those parts.

[richparker]

First, that sucks about Pat.
Second, Skills is right. The Subie will be more reliable, will require less maintenance and will last longer.

[skills@eurocarsplus]