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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world. |
You obviously haven't ever met a Yugo or some of the Russian offerings have you?....... |
Or owned an Austin, Hillman, Lada, Chevy Vega, Pinto...
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Had a 1961 Sunbeam Rapier Mk 3, what a huge pile of crap that was. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world. |
Sure, but there are more of them on the road than any other 50+ year old car.
How many 1960s and early 70s Cadillacs do you see on the road? |
Well, I was being sarcastic (need a tag!!)
this was pretty much my point, that cheap does not always = crap
It's just a mindset, like when my neighbor asked how I could like such a piece of junk when I had my bug towed to my house from my folks. Even back in the late 2000s you didn't hardly see these on the road in my area- that must mean they were total piles that were cheap and didn't last, just like Pittsburgh tools are crap because they are cheap sold at HF...?
Hey I'll even extend this to the topic at hand- the few places around the country that offer CNG/LNG sell it at around $1-$1.50 less than gasoline, that must mean its crap that will explode on sight! 
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3622
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| There is no reason to buy anything from there. |
Um, yeah there is. They make cheap products. It's that simple. We don't like to pay ridiculous prices for things as it is, now let's say that product that was $200 now was made in the US. It would be even more expensive. Why am I gonna pay $500 for an item that is $200 from China? Is the quality gonna be that different? Doubt it. Does this apply to everything? No, but most consumer products, it does in my opinion. |
When the lowest price is the first consideration, then quality goes away. You have to look for quality. The first thing I do is look at where the item was made and that's because China has a reputation for making junk. People are happy to replace the item multiple times because it's simply like buying an item on time. They can afford to pay $100 five times for an item that will last 6 months instead of paying $500 up front for one that will last them for years. My grandparents paid cash for anything they bought and they bought the best they could afford, not the cheapest. They were not wealthy but when they made a purchase, they expected it to last a lifetime. They bought a new car every 15 years and owned one house. Today, we expect to replace everything and that's because most everything made is a throw away item. |
Exactly, so that’s why we buy things from China. The average consumer doesn’t care. They are the MAJORITY. People that will only buy made in America are a very small percentage in the big picture. When your average consumer doesn’t make enough to buy the $500 whatever so they buy the cheaper one that’s the demand right there. They want the cheaper product because it doesn’t make sense financially to spend $500 on an item. I would never expect anything to last a lifetime, even if it was made here. Our manufacturing isn’t superior to China, it would just cost more in my opinion. The Chinese are very capable of making a quality item, but that’s not where the demand is and so they are told to make it cheaper. I’ll give you an example right here, now this is tools, but still. My coworker has a full set of Matco combination wrenches. Right around $400. I have a set of Husky wrenches with some HF thrown in, way cheaper. I’ve NEVER heard of someone breaking a wrench. So if I broke one, I can run down to Harbor Freight, buy another FULL set for $26, replace the one and now I have a whole other set of spares. This is now two sets of wrenches for far less than one set of Matco’s. This is just an example and some tools I wouldn’t buy from HF but you get the idea. The consumer makes the demands and companies respond to that. If Americans start saying we’ll pay $500 for a made in USA toaster, maybe GE will listen, but we won’t so it won’t happen. |
Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world. |
LOL, not always and that's kind of my point. A wrench is a wrench to me. They all get the job done. Same can be said for toasters, TVs, etc. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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'67 Beetle L41
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'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future".  |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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In the UK. I'll just leave this here...
"Electric car charging points in people’s homes will be preset to switch off for nine hours each weekday at times of peak demand because ministers fear blackouts on the National Grid.
Under regulations that will come into force in May, new chargers in the home and workplace will be automatically set not to function from 8am to 11am and 4pm to 10pm. Public chargers and rapid chargers, on motorways and A-roads, will be exempt."
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Z = z² + C
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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For 50+ years we've been running of oil and for good reason, only problem is we're not running out of oil and doubt the public will ever know. So..There's that for the oil lobbyists.
Then, the problem with the gubment gonna be mandating, like, how/ where electric companies will make electricity. We all know who's going to pay for that.
I'm still not convinced the electric vehicles are going to save the planet. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Rich Latsch wrote: |
| There is no reason to buy anything from there. |
Um, yeah there is. They make cheap products. It's that simple. We don't like to pay ridiculous prices for things as it is, now let's say that product that was $200 now was made in the US. It would be even more expensive. Why am I gonna pay $500 for an item that is $200 from China? Is the quality gonna be that different? Doubt it. Does this apply to everything? No, but most consumer products, it does in my opinion. |
When the lowest price is the first consideration, then quality goes away. You have to look for quality. The first thing I do is look at where the item was made and that's because China has a reputation for making junk. People are happy to replace the item multiple times because it's simply like buying an item on time. They can afford to pay $100 five times for an item that will last 6 months instead of paying $500 up front for one that will last them for years. My grandparents paid cash for anything they bought and they bought the best they could afford, not the cheapest. They were not wealthy but when they made a purchase, they expected it to last a lifetime. They bought a new car every 15 years and owned one house. Today, we expect to replace everything and that's because most everything made is a throw away item. |
Exactly, so that’s why we buy things from China. The average consumer doesn’t care. They are the MAJORITY. People that will only buy made in America are a very small percentage in the big picture. When your average consumer doesn’t make enough to buy the $500 whatever so they buy the cheaper one that’s the demand right there. They want the cheaper product because it doesn’t make sense financially to spend $500 on an item. I would never expect anything to last a lifetime, even if it was made here. Our manufacturing isn’t superior to China, it would just cost more in my opinion. The Chinese are very capable of making a quality item, but that’s not where the demand is and so they are told to make it cheaper. I’ll give you an example right here, now this is tools, but still. My coworker has a full set of Matco combination wrenches. Right around $400. I have a set of Husky wrenches with some HF thrown in, way cheaper. I’ve NEVER heard of someone breaking a wrench. So if I broke one, I can run down to Harbor Freight, buy another FULL set for $26, replace the one and now I have a whole other set of spares. This is now two sets of wrenches for far less than one set of Matco’s. This is just an example and some tools I wouldn’t buy from HF but you get the idea. The consumer makes the demands and companies respond to that. If Americans start saying we’ll pay $500 for a made in USA toaster, maybe GE will listen, but we won’t so it won’t happen. |
Yes, lowest price point ALWAYS has to = complete junk, this is why the VW bug is the crappiest car that was ever made in the world. |
LOL, not always and that's kind of my point. A wrench is a wrench to me. They all get the job done. Same can be said for toasters, TVs, etc. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it doesn't work. |
This is a great argument for the glory hole. Hey whatever gets it done. Huh. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Quote: |
| A wrench is a wrench to me. They all get the job done. |
Grasshopper. Learn from those who have already walked the path that you are on
I still do, after 70 years.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| I'm still not convinced the electric vehicles are going to save the planet. |
The picture that comes to my mind is a herd of drowning elephants being saved by someone throwing them ping pong balls. Wouldn't that make a great cartoon?
It's going to take a lot more than electric cars to undo the damage our modern greedy consumerism focused society is doing!
But, throw the ping pong ball cars out there, people need to believe that help is coming...
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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No one thing “ saves the planet”
Moving energy needs from oil to electricity opens a path to renewable sources which do save the planet
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| I'm still not convinced the electric vehicles are going to save the planet. |
The picture that comes to my mind is a herd of drowning elephants being saved by someone throwing them ping pong balls. Wouldn't that make a great cartoon?
It's going to take a lot more than electric cars to undo the damage our modern greedy consumerism focused society is doing!
But, throw the ping pong ball cars out there, people need to believe that help is coming... |
We can always go back to horses.
Then we just have methane gas to worry about and water pollution from the horse droppings.
But on the upside, Golden Gate park exists in part because they needed a dump for the tons of city horse crap.
And
They used to shoot horse thieves.
Car thieves we pat them on the back and say something about their childhood being bad.
If we continue the practice of shooting horse thieves, the private transportation crime rate will drop dramatically.
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Are electric vehicles the plastic bags of the 21st century? I do believe they are,
human beings the dumbest animals on the planet (he who screams the loudest
is the victor).
Humanity will not know for decades how bad ev's are/were for the planet.
This thinking probably took place while the ice was being introduced.
Was the plastic evolution really all that bad?
Are ice's all that bad?
The easy answer is.. how good is the propaganda. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Ok here it is just for those that like to speculate and ruminate over what ifs. Over 150 different scenarios of disasters and mayhem that could happen all carefully explained so you can go negative on a bunch of things. Just think of the fun you can have with this. When I bought it I was thinking of Samba off topic in particular and the sunshine boys here. 
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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the problem is no one sees the big picture...
fucking everything is electric today. look around how much shit you have hanging out of your walls to charge your (insert devices here)
if you don't unplug them, they are sucking energy all the time. go buy a 'kill-a-watt' and see.
off doesn't mean off anymore. your tv is sucking power while it's off.
take a look around your house at night and look at all of the LED's glowing on everything.
they are killing off coal, natural gas etc WITHOUT having a replacement ready to roll out. that is just fucking stupid. lets tax the grid even more.
they are literally pulling the plug before doing the upgrades... totally short sighted.
i'm at a point now where it's looking like it would be more cost effective to run a diesel generator on corn oil than it is to buy electricity
we need affordable energy. the policies being shoved down our throats is directly impacting the poor and middle class. open your eyes.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Z , that's where the term 'mad scientist ' comes from..?
The only what 'if's I have, me being slow and all, is , what if
I don't get my my pulley and sand seal before the earth dies
From petroleum pollution.
Being a simpleton, I just want to drive my bug.
After quick search, what does it take to be a scientist,
schooling and practical experience, that being said,
Look at the plethora of vw scientists on this site...
Technically, whatever your profession is, if you know everything
There is to know about a specific undertaking you are a
Scientist in that field.
Science is always changing so is life...
I want my damn pulley. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31374
Location: Hot Arizona
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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No we don't need to go back to horse and buggy! We just need to be more responsible about our consumption of all fuels including electricity.
Do we need a 3000+sq ft home to raise 1 or 2 kids? Our grandparents raised 6, 8 , or 10 kids in an 800 sq ft home.
Do we need a 3 car heated garage?
Do we need 4 cars, a boat, 2 motorbikes, 3 quads, a 30 ft motorhome, 2 snowmobiles?
Do we need all the latest and greatest appliances and gadgets?
Do we need an $ 80K 4x4 loaded SUV/pickup to get groceries?
Do we need to start it up for 1 bag of chips and a coke for the evening?
Do we need to keep our homes at 70*F summer and winter? Anyone own a sweater?
Do we need to jet to far off holiday destinations twice a year?
I could go on and on but you get the idea, we feel entitled to luxuries that are beyond the imagination of previous generations and have no thoughts about what all this costs the planet. It's almost like we are in a race to strip this earth of all that is good and we need to get it done NOW!!
Then we bitch and complain because the government is not doing enough to save us!
Well, California is... they are throwing ping pong balls to the drowning elephants!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I agree, except for the the gubment part,
they can't build a fence. |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7948
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I'm fed up with the 'save the planet' expression. the planet is not in danger - unless it gets wiped out by an asteroid. it will still exist doing its planetary thing for eons; it will just be different with different inhabitants. everything has its time...
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nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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If we really want to "save the planet" (whatever that means) we should hope for something like a global pandemic to come along and kill off about half of the world's human population.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
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