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Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question.
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:46 pm    Post subject: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Bought a rare item today, Sand/Dirt rail that is registered for the street!
Good thing I am not in Texas as I hear they have been revoking such titles.

Built a while back, no idea who's chassis was used.
"Porsche 914 engine" (Ya, sure, with a single 2V Weber carb.) Bus trans and Bus? trailing arms, brakes, axles.
Link pin front, full drum brakes on all four corners.

Sellers dad bought him new rear tires 33" instead of the 31" that had been on it.
The 33's did not clear the torsion bar caps.
So the genius cut them. Really, he did!

I will have to replace the torsion bars and end caps in order to drive the buggy.
Also want to relocate the spare, no real rearview as it is.

I would like to keep the new tires if they do not ruin the gearing.
Not a fan of wheel spacers.
Is there a reasonably simple/inexpensive way to shorten up the torsion bar caps?
I will not be racing this buggy, local dirt trails and street use only.

I can supply pics of the "Custom" modification in a couple o days if needed.

For now a couple pics of what I bought.

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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

You can use swingaxle short torsion bars and spring plates. That would require cutting the spring plates to fit.

That's what my '58 Baja has. When I converted the car from swingaxle to IRS, I had the torsion bars and the spring plates. So instead of buying different ones, I just worked with what I had. Still going a couple hundred thousand miles later.

Or just use IRS parts and get 31" tires and sell the 33s.

The frame looks a lot like a Hi Jumper Ascot. But it may be an imitation. Although the front hood is almost certainly Hi Jumper Ascot like mine.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

There is no need to cut down swing axle spring plates to fit IRS suspension anymore as aftermarket spring plates are available. You can even get them with adjusters to tune your suspension.
SwayAway (made in (USA) and Chinese ones available.
Your picture shows a type 4/Porsche 914 engine valve cover. Meaning your engine came out of a VW Bus, 411,412,or 914. Stock sizes were 1.7, 1.8, and 2.0 liters. Great engines. I have one in my buggy that started out as a 1.7 that built into a 2.2 liter. Has a lot of torque for off reading.

If it has a 3 rib Bus transaxle in it, 33in tires work a lot better then 31in tire at highway speeds.
Looks like a lot of fun.
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71StandardReduction
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

I'm interested in front tire size information please.
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64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

71StandardReduction wrote:
I'm interested in front tire size information please.


Yeah, I like the look of those front tires. What brand/size are they? I'd like a front tire that's a little more pavement friendly than the Yokos that are on my Baja now.
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Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Those look like the old BFG 7.00-15 tires available about 25 years ago. They were made in Mexico. Wish BFG still had them.
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Putting more funds into the sellers hand tomorrow, balance once he gets the title from DMV.
I will take a camera for pics.
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Got more pics of what I am getting.
Looks like 002 three-rib trans, so very low gears and the 33's may be needed?

Car is from Fallon NV, anyone know it?
Been off the trails for a few years.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rear suspension, I think Bus.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


More rear.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Front brake.

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Tall front with reinforcement.

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The front tire that was being asked about, TOYO 7.00-15

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The spring plate butchery.

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71StandardReduction
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Thanks for the tire info!!
Looking at the pics.... looks like possibly a factory Beetle Trailing arm with a "Box in" kit welded on.... Honestly can't see it very well though
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One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

https://youtube.com/@SCOFabwerx?feature=shared
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

First thing I need to figure out is what length torsion bars?
I have a junk 70 bug, probably not the right ones as they use a nearly flat cap and the old ones had a long extension.
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71StandardReduction
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

If it is a Beelte torsion housing, and looking at the dual spring plate I'm saying it most likely is, then you can change out the torsion bars and use your spring plates and caps.
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One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

The torsion bar length you need for tire clearance is the 21-3/4in long that came in 1961 to 1967 Bugs.
For off road use I would go with a larger diameter then the stock of 22mm. Something like a 25-26mm diameter 21-3/4in long.
On my own buggy I am using aftermarket adjustable spring plates. With them you can change preload and height of rear suspension.

One of my buggies I was using on the street had the 3rib Bus transaxle with a 5.38 ring and pinion. I was using 20 some odd years tires that were 33in tall. Had to finally replace them. Went with 31in tires, really raised my cruising RPMs to uncomfortable levels.
Switch to a 091 transaxle with 4.56 R&P to use 31in tires.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

If it really is Bus torsion bars and with all those shocks you will have a bone jarring ride like you have never experiance before!

I am not exaggerating here, it's real. I have a compression fracture on one vertebra from mine and all it has for shocks is a pair of worn out stock ones!

Check to see if the seller is in a body cast!
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kbwakesk8
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

https://www.mooreparts.com/vw-rear-irs-spring-plates-for-21-3-4-torsion-bar/
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Somewhere on this site I should be able to find the difference in weight for type 4 vs standard Bug engine.
I know the type 4 is heavier.
Weight would affect how heavy the torsion bars need to be.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

True, the type 4 engine is heavier by about 60 pounds if I recall correctly. I put one in my street Buggy which has stock Beetle suspension and it dropped the rear by - maybe an inch at the very most. You have a spare tire back there and likely a battery, maybe a fuel tank too? Well - so does the VW Bus and it was still advertised as having a 1 ton load capacity.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

The weight of the type 4 engine like yours is not that much more then a type 1.
Getting rid of the stock heater boxes takes away a lot of weight.
I been using type 4 engines in buggies since the 1970s. Still using one now.
I converted to upright cooling system (like a type 1 uses) many years ago with a different system then I have now.
With the upright cooling system it weighs approximately a 20lbs more then a type 1 engine and most of that is from die cast aluminum engine case. Yes the stock type 4 fan housing weighs a little more then the upright conversion, but not that much more.
The sand cast aftermarket aluminum type 1 engine case is 17lbs heavier then a type 1 magnesium case
The last picture shows after a 3in body lift and longer travel suspension upgrade. Trailing arms are 1-1/2in longer for tires to clear 26-9/16in 23.5mm torsion bars (stock type 3). I like a soft ride. Weighs approximately 1800lbs now with all the extra steel in the chassis.
Installing dual carbs such as Weber (or copy) 40IDF will have more power even if engine is stock otherwise.


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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Hope to get it home in the next couple of days.
First thing to do will be a pressure wash to get rid of years of accumulated dirt and mouse leavings.

From there I will tackle the suspension and brakes.
No doubt some wiring and lights too.

This is to become my main daily driver except for when it is just too cold for an open car.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

You are going to have a lot of fun driving your buggy in the dirt and on the street.
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Richard/SIA
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. Reply with quote

Got it home today.
Next up is a pressure wash then off the trailer and into the workshop. Very Happy
Then I may begin fixing the suspension, do an oil change, make it a driver.
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