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pop.pop1955 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2021 Posts: 45 Location: Palm Coast, Fl.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:45 am Post subject: Stupid question |
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I had bugs in the 70's and was recently able to purchase another as a retirement hobby. What is the idea behind the negative camber on the rear wheels I see on some? _________________ let your conscious be your guide |
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Matt Wilson Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 2408 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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It's what the kids are calling "stanced" - it's a matter of taste to make the car have that specific extreme lowered/extreme negative camber look. I can't say it's my taste... _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5364 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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If we are talking about a car with a swingaxle transmission, When you start to lower the rear, by its design, the wheels are forced into this negative camber. This is because there is only one pivot point on the axle (at the transmission). If it is 69 or newer with the IRS rear end, unless the rear is slammed to the ground, the negative camber is usually caused by bent trailing arms, or collapsed rubber bushings. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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passionre Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2021 Posts: 59 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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If you dig deeper, it's actually a coping mechanism for appendage size envy. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34013 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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It's not a stupid question. It's a question about the stupidity of others. Their priorities are "look" and style over safety and economy. _________________ '73 super. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34013 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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Igpoe wrote: |
It's not a stupid question. |
Ummm, what is the title of this thread?
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2495 Location: high ridge, mo
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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This page does a good job explaining negative camber when you lower the rear of a S/A car.
https://www.jbugs.com/VW-Tech-Article-Swing-Axle-vs-IRS.html _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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pop.pop1955 wrote: |
I had bugs in the 70's and was recently able to purchase another as a retirement hobby. What is the idea behind the negative camber on the rear wheels I see on some? |
The idea is form over function unless it was bagged |
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Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1430
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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If you eyeball some stock late BMWs you'll see camber on the rear like a lowered swingaxle.
Short track racers tend to run crazy amounts of camber. Done right, it keeps the contact patch where it needs to be in the corners.
I'm talking about two situations that are engineered and semi- engineered. We also have a setup first seen on dirt late models called "hillbillied". The idea is to use very light springs so the car lays over in the corners. There is a system of links and bars that keep the rear end flat to the track while the body rolls. The modern dirt late model is a strange beast with the body trimmed to maintain downforce while the car is cranked over and sideways.
You're effectively using very light springs when you take a couple splines of preload out of the rear torsions to lower the car.
Lowered cars especially lowered VWs trade function for appearance. The aircooled VW chassis was designed to be exceptionally functional on marginal roads. Lowering it trades off performance for appearance. The increased camber isn't there by design, it's an inevitable bi- product of setting the suspension to what would normally be the bottom of its travel.
What "they" usually don't tell you is swingaxles do a funky tuck and jack thing on hard cornering such as freeway off- ramps. Outer wheel tucks, inner wheel jacks, an undesirable situation. Overcook a corner, you''ll end up upside- down in the ditch. |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4419 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question |
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Dusty1 wrote: |
What "they" usually don't tell you is swingaxles do a funky tuck and jack thing on hard cornering such as freeway off- ramps. Outer wheel tucks, inner wheel jacks, an undesirable situation. Overcook a corner, you''ll end up upside- down in the ditch. |
From reading the dunebuggie book and the off road section, this tuck and jack in a corner is also a quality of positive camber in a raised swing-axle bug, like in a baja bug. So... perhaps some degree of negative camber in a swing axle would be advantageous in a corner so the outside wheel wouldn't tuck?
While the extreme negative camber resulting from slamming an early swing-axle bug is no handling advantage whatsoever, the low-riding patina bug is a popular expression of enthusiasm where I'm at, so I have grown accustomed, or even fond of it's quirky appearance.
Keep on Buggin _________________ 1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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