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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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vwinnovator wrote: |
winner gets the other guys engine |
Do you think they want each others engine? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Glenn wrote: |
vwinnovator wrote: |
winner gets the other guys engine |
Do you think they want each others engine? |
your probably right....
Nobody remembers 2nd place... |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Thats like saying...
I build a twin turbo LS...
And you build a blown 289 windsor.
Pointless, and we all know whose gonna win.
Again, This idea that there are people saying the T1 platform is better than a T4, is false. Nobody is saying that. _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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vwinnovator wrote: |
I say pat and jake should have an engine build off.
Set a price limit of about $15K
type 1 build vs. type IV
highest horse power/ torque and a 100,000 mile drive with 45-50mph avg speed and then an hr drive in city traffic.
no changes to engines between dyno and drives.
winner gets the other guy's engine |
^^FIFY^^
Hot type 1 motors are fun but they never last very long.
'Chickensoup' is a teenager.
They are "voracious consumers of media".
Meaning they do little else.
To appeal to that crowd, Jake's video will need some of that canned music, you know the ones, with the synthesized human voice..
Plus have some time-lapse so people get to watch work being done
(everyone likes to sit and watch other people work, you know).
Maybe get him a wardrobe consultant, makeup artist and hair stylist..
Or, he can just inform those of us who build type 4 motors like he has always done,
And we'll appreciate his wisdom as always.
Thanks for sharing Jake. I always learn something good. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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What type of Vehicle Bug or Bus, if in a Bus the T-1 has no chance, especially if you throw in hills and continuous 75 to 89mph runs.
I know I showed these photo and video a few times, but this it to get my point across. The engine in the photos is the engine I wrote my manual about in 1992 and built in 1989. That is 30 years of all kinds of drivingi in Snow, temps from well below freezing to high 90f, 21 years 70 mile round trip into NYC. I live an area of hills, some so high I can see the building in NYC 35 miles away. Never gave my 2.0 T-4 with 1.7 case any though, just kept changing speedometers . It has to have 285,000 to over 300,000 miles, never did a valve job or split the case.
In the video below the pull the curser to 10:05 and will see the actual engine.
Never have I hear of a T-1 doing that under conditions I mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTz9fRzQ_2U&t=768s _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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wheel607 Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 1845
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
lol yall be acting like a group of SJW's
I think T4's are less popular because,
A. Harder to find than T1's
B. LOTS more $ to buy and build a performance example. Even stock.
C. Only a direct fit to buses, porsches, and 411/412's.
D. Less aftermarket
E. Im guessing less were made as compared to late model T1's. Not sure tho.
Ive yet to see anyone state that T1's are better. Because theyre not. However, T4's just arent a reasonable choice for the average joe with average skills. |
This is what Chickensoup said. Nowhere in what he said is that type 1s is better. "Maybe he is a teenager" but his thinking is advanced for his age. Can you find anything incorrect with the a,b,c,d,e, above. Ok, I am farther from being a teenager than most all on here and I have seen it since the start of type 2s.........."they are not a reasonable choice for the average joe with average skills" that again is all he said. If you need correlation, I have seen MANY more late model type 2s from 1972 forward parked and rotting away because of a little fix that NOBODY could diagnose. And, even when the SMALL problems were diagnosed correctly, the parts were much more expensive than type 1, even if they were available. I can only wish for a Pat Jake build off. It wont tell me what I already know. You cannot follow them both for years and determine RELIABILITY, and thats where the type 2 that Raby can put together will succeed. Anybody that doesnt know that the type 1 by Pat can put out the horsepower, is a fool. Anybody that doesnt know that the type2 put out by Jake is superior in reliability is a fool. What do you want? Horsepower or reliability. You are talking about two different items. I have chosen my path with the type 1 because I have found that a $35,000 Jake Raby engine is too expensive. Is his engine the best on this planet....probably. This is my personal belief! |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
I love the idea of building a Type 4 but I have yet to find a reasonably priced core to start with, they are all four digit priced, or missing half the engine in various states of unorganised disassembly, or seized (!?) |
I know a guy who can get cores for 250 _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
in california?
I'm willing to go on an hour or two drive but shipping is prohibitively costly on a ~300 gamble for me. |
no, In Michigan _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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wheel607 wrote: |
Chickensoup wrote: |
lol yall be acting like a group of SJW's
I think T4's are less popular because,
A. Harder to find than T1's
B. LOTS more $ to buy and build a performance example. Even stock.
C. Only a direct fit to buses, porsches, and 411/412's.
D. Less aftermarket
E. Im guessing less were made as compared to late model T1's. Not sure tho.
Ive yet to see anyone state that T1's are better. Because theyre not. However, T4's just arent a reasonable choice for the average joe with average skills. |
This is what Chickensoup said. Nowhere in what he said is that type 1s is better. "Maybe he is a teenager" but his thinking is advanced for his age. Can you find anything incorrect with the a,b,c,d,e, above. Ok, I am farther from being a teenager than most all on here and I have seen it since the start of type 2s.........."they are not a reasonable choice for the average joe with average skills" that again is all he said. If you need correlation, I have seen MANY more late model type 2s from 1972 forward parked and rotting away because of a little fix that NOBODY could diagnose. And, even when the SMALL problems were diagnosed correctly, the parts were much more expensive than type 1, even if they were available. I can only wish for a Pat Jake build off. It wont tell me what I already know. You cannot follow them both for years and determine RELIABILITY, and thats where the type 2 that Raby can put together will succeed. Anybody that doesnt know that the type 1 by Pat can put out the horsepower, is a fool. Anybody that doesnt know that the type2 put out by Jake is superior in reliability is a fool. What do you want? Horsepower or reliability. You are talking about two different items. I have chosen my path with the type 1 because I have found that a $35,000 Jake Raby engine is too expensive. Is his engine the best on this planet....probably. This is my personal belief! |
I appreciate it cuz.
People get so worked up here on this site. Its almost funny tbh.
I complimented Jake in this topic several months ago. And then mentioned that he bores me because... Hes mono tone. The fact that people get offended over that... Is sad.
Notice, Jake didnt take any offense. At least not in his writing.
Jake Raby wrote: |
chickensoup wrote: |
Quite a but of good stuff but the guy makes me fall asleep. |
Because it's not meant to be entertaining. |
Yet, People bow down onto their heads, pray to the T4 gods, and get fired up after a quick run on some hot coals.
There seems to be a trend on this site. Or actually, just life in general.
People cannot handle facts that interfere with their beliefs. And because they know they cant argue facts, they nip pick on the unnecessary. _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Must use same vehicle for both engines.
Same dyno as well....
Guess it would be about the best value for $15k spent.
“Better” will always be a debate as they both have their deficiencies.
We’re not talking about stock vw components here either.
$15k is a decent budget for things like TF-1 cases, Nicky cyls, and other after market options..
Again..this would be about the value for the money spent.. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Guys this is getting funny, it like the old saying " I can't see the forest there are too many trees in my way "!!!
You are asking to see the two top engine builders in a computation as to what is better T-1 or T-4.
Well go up a few posts and you will see this guy Joe Cali that has no way the skills of those two guys.
The T-4 engine was all together a different engine to me, all I did was split the case take out the 1.7 Pistons and Cylinders and Piston rods and crank and in stall a used set of 2.0 parts from a 914 ( new pistons ). Done and my bug still runs like a monster and has that mileage. So what more do you need to see.
A bug is very light - The T-4 is hardly working to move it. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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So...
Your spending 15k on each engine.
They are going in the same car.
How could the value or "best bang for buck" change?
Look, Im not trying to piss in your cheerios. Or shit in them for that manner.
But everyone with half a brain cell already knows the T4 will come up on top in probably every category.
Who would want to drop 30k only to prove something we already know.
Before this escalates into an Italian land slide, Im going to walk on over to safety. I can hear the retards rolling up. Or down. There no need to respond to them. _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
People cannot handle facts that interfere with their beliefs |
yes |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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When my 1904 died, I had a clean sheet of paper since there was not much to salvage. I considered Type 1, Type 4, turbo and Subaru... i went with a Type 1 since that's what I know, what i've always worked on and FOR me, what belongs in a Beetle.
What works for you might be different.
Honestly the idea of 300+hp with a STi engine in the back is appealing. But I also passed on it when I bought my Subaru and got the Impreza with the 2.0l.
Look at the Cheby guys... SBC vs Big Block. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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My manual is the T-4 Census Taker... Back in the 90 T-4'were all over the place. I sold manuals like crazy, now, they shopped breaking down my door.
I totally agree supply and demand. But that was not what this was about.
It is about which is better engine.
Actually it started with Which is the Better T-4 engine case, 1.7 1.8 2.0.
AND the winner is 1.7 !! _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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nextgen wrote: |
It is about which is better engine. |
Judged by who?
Can't be you since you're biased. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Clatter wrote: |
'Chickensoup' is a teenager. |
NO he isn't. He pulled a Tucker and scammed us all.
Maybe his teenage son does post under his username but chickensoup is a well-established middle-aged adult. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Jake Raby recent video --- T-4 2.0 vs 1.7 and 1.8 |
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Clatter wrote: |
'Chickensoup' is a teenager. |
NO he isn't. He pulled a Tucker and scammed us all.
Maybe his teenage son does post under his username but chickensoup is a well-established middle-aged adult. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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