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Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:19 pm Post subject: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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I’m going to replace the fuel lines and maybe some other fuel component bits like the fuel rails and injectors, in advance of the engine replacement (ordered Go Westy 2.2L) that will be done by Jason at KTG. There are kits from all the VW aftermarket vendors. I’ve done a basic comparison of kits from GW, Van Cafe, Buslab, Bus Depot and Vanagon.org. Anyone else done a comparison between the different options and come up with things I might have missed?
Probably the most important aspect is that the hose itself is German-made and J30r9 rated. I would think that all the usual suspects carry hose lines that meet this, but one vendor carry hoses that exceed this level. Van Cafe has J30r14 hoses which has a nylon insert to prevent bio-diesel from soaking through but since most vanagons are petrol, doesn’t seem useful to me.
Other factors are the type of clamps supplied, how they address the OEM plastic thingy-in-the-firewall, and if the heat shield is supplied and if so, is it OEM or proprietary like Go Westy’s. All the vendors include the Fuel Injector upper and lower seals. If I buy new injectors, either from GW or Mansispeed, it’d be redundant. Anyways, here’s my assessment.
GW- $113/ ear clamps/ no Heat Shield/ grommet Fire Wall adapter
Van Cafe- $128/ cheap worm clamps/ no HS/ proprietary FW adapter
Buslab- $86/ ear clamps/ OEM style HS/ no FW adapter/ hoses are pre-cut
Bus Depot- $100/ Mercedes style clamps/ no HS/ sleeve FW adapter
Vanagon.org- $80/ ear clamps/ no HS/ grommet FW adaptor
Vanagain- I didn’t include theirs because their kit doesn’t include the FI seals, and the 12mm hose and clamps. I can’t tell if his kit includes the cheap worm drive clamps. Still, if I get new injectors and rails, I may piecemeal the parts from Ken, as long as the clamps are either ear style or MB style.
From looking at this non-Excel spreadsheet, I’m inclined to go with Buslab and adding a FW grommet from GW. What do you guys/gals think? Thanks! _________________ 1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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Which ever kit you finally decide, you are definitely going about it the right way and doing the research. Kudos. _________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22575 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:17 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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How much line do you need? I’ve got a couple of spools of fuel injection line that are paid off, oetikers sre $1 each from Fastenal
Isn’t this like $30 of kit all in? _________________ .ssS! |
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clift_d Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Hackney innit, UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:12 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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It's worth highlighting that generic fuel hose, with an SAE 30R9 or SAE 30R14 specification, may only have been tested for compatability with fuel that has a 5% (E5) ethanol content, as this is the minimum that is required under the SAE J30 standard - the relevant section for R9 is section 4.5 on page 7, and for R14 section 4.10 on page 8.
The decent manufacturers ensure that their fuel hose exceeds the requirements of R9 or R14 - for example the stuff that Brickwerks in the UK sell, or a product like Gates Barricade, which are both also rated for 100% (E100) ethanol content.
Given that many countries are already using fuel with 10% ethanol content (E10), you will need to be careful to check what you're getting before you buy generic hose online. _________________ 1988 LHD T25 1.6TD Westfalia Club Joker syncro
Last edited by clift_d on Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32438 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4532 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:02 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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i went with the crimp clamps one time and really cursed when two weeks later had to disconnect some fuel line for another task. never again. ABA reusable clamps are the best choice, IMO.
fuel line and clamps and sleeves are out there all over the place. if you feel like supporting a vanagon vendor and want to buy one of their kits, that's cool. i get it. they've done the work for you and charge accordingly. but i would recommend sourcing some line/clamps/sleeves from somewhere that isn't van-centric and in turn saving your coins for something that is really specialty that you will need to pay a premium for. _________________ 71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T |
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jAndrew Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2020 Posts: 306 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:36 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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I know everyone has different income and budgets, I really get that. But I will go out on a limb and say if you do not have $30 for the ear clamp pliers then you cannot afford a Vanagon. With that tool I can't see how it can be messed up- even a tool like me can use them.
ABA clamps on connections you may need to disconnect more often maybe. _________________ '89 Syncro Doka |
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revolution337 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2009 Posts: 372 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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Knipex 10 99 i220 are the pliers you want for crimping those Oetiker clamps. They are nice because you can use them straight on, or at 90* if space is limited. Made in Germany, very high quality.
https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-Tools-10-99-i220/dp/B01I3H6UIC
_________________ 1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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Size Matters.
Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.
But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".
5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.
To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!
But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and I’d substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.
Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.
Jim Davis[/i] _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:08 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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Abscate wrote: |
How much line do you need? I’ve got a couple of spools of fuel injection line that are paid off, oetikers sre $1 each from Fastenal
Isn’t this like $30 of kit all in? |
I suppose the standard amount that comes in a kit- 12 ft of 7.9mm HP hose, and 2 ft of 12mm LP hose. I guess I could and maybe should buy them individually at the local VW shops but they tend to gouge you. When I did the shifter service, I bought the boots at one of Halsey, they were charging $20 a boot! I stopped giving them by business after that.
clift_d wrote: |
It's worth highlighting that generic fuel hose, with an SAE 30R9 or SAE 30R14 specification, may only have been tested for compatability with fuel that has a 5% (E5) ethanol content, as this is the minimum that is required under the SAE J30 standard - the relevant section for R9 is section 4.5 on page 7, and for R14 section 4.10 on page 8.
The decent manufacturers ensure that their fuel hose exceeds the requirements of R9 or R14 - for example the stuff that Brickwerks in the UK sell, or a product like Gates Barricade, which are both also rated for 100% (E100) ethanol content.
Given that many countries are already using fuel with 10% ethanol content (E10), you will need to be careful to check what you're getting before you buy generic hose online. |
Well now ya have me re-thinking and I’m probably going down the rabbit hole looking for 100% rated hoses! Thanks man!
SyncroHead wrote: |
Size Matters.
Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.
But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".
5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.
To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!
But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and I’d substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.
Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.
Jim Davis[/i] |
Good points! Any hose that is 7.9mm is out! _________________ 1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White |
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leecat Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2012 Posts: 773 Location: Regina
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff. |
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Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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leecat wrote: |
When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff. |
Who did you order from?
What about the LP hose? 12mm or 11.xx size the OEM spec? _________________ 1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White |
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leecat Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2012 Posts: 773 Location: Regina
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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I ordered from Buslab, if I recall - same product, half the price of the 'major' vendors. Plus they had the protective sheathing at the time, had I needed it.
I think my 12mm was fairly newly installed from the PO, so I did not replace it. I was mostly concerned with the hoses near any spark at the rear of the van. |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.
The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint. |
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jAndrew Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2020 Posts: 306 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality. _________________ '89 Syncro Doka |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6316 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:54 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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jAndrew wrote: |
these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality. |
Now this is neat, side crimping!
Knipex does great tools, I used to be a small hardware store manager in France, I would always twist the arm of the sales rep to get me a freebie tool for myself on my big orders _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:02 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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?Waldo? wrote: |
The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.
The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint. |
Both of these points are Spot On.
Although I am not against spending good money on good tools, and I do have several Knipex's, yet ANOTHER tool (and bag of fasteners) to carry onboard while out on the road is a hard pill to swallow. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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korfmach Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 247 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:03 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool. _________________ 1989 Westy
2016 Golf TSI
Gone, but not forgotten:
1974 Dorper Baywindow, "The Bleeding Trout"
1998 Jetta TDI, "Trixie"
1987 GTI, "Heike"
1974 Thing, "The Luftwaffel"
1974 Ghia
1966 Ghia |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:12 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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[quote="korfmach"]
djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I've done a few Vanagon fuel line replacements, I agree that the VC clamps are of very good quality. Some times they won't sell you a kit, due to the popularity of those clamps, as they go out of stock fairly quickly. I really appreciate the "email when available" feature, and ordered a spare fuel line kit and a couple dozen extra of the good clamps.
COUNT your VC kit clamps when you get it. COUNT your clamp points BEFORE you start the job. No need to ask why I bought the extra clamps.
Also, if you do get a leak, I suggest you ADD another clamp at that location. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
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korfmach wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool. |
I've used the Van Cafe kit on multiple vehicles and have never had a line leak afterwards. |
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