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IRS tranny on 66 Beetle
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bugba69
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 9:29 am    Post subject: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

I've got a '66 beetle I'm thinking of switching out the swing axle tranny and replacing it with an IRS tranny. Is this a bad idea? Are there some IRS trannys that aren't compatible with the '66 frame?

For example, would something like this work on mine even though the description says it fits '69-'70?
https://socalautoparts.com/product/transmission-bu...GmEALw_wcB
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

No irs trans will be compatible with the 66’ unless you do considerable additional work. There are a number of things that will need to be changed or modified the biggest is that you will need trailing arms and their pivots welded in. Will need different spring plates and wheel hubs and probably all the rest of the rear end parts from a irs vehicle.
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

Welcome to The Samba.

Short answer NO. It would require welding and modifying the chassis.

Read thru these 2 threads to get an understanding of what you want.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143138

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658674
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

I have several IRS rear torsion housing /with control arms and spring plates, etc.. just for this purpose.

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.

If your not confidant in doing the conversion, bring it to me.
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esde
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

vwinnovator wrote:

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.


Easier? I would rather weld in pivots than have to splice or reroute the 4 cable guide tubes and the fuel line. If you're doing the job you should be doing the bushings too, so it's not really extra work to take it apart, IMO
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

Here's an irs roller with a title for $1300. Depending on where you live something like this might be the most economical option.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2544247
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

I made a jig and installed pivots.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

You can rent the jig to weld on the pivot from aircooled.net

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/IRS-Diagonal-Arm-Pivo...g-rent.htm
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

vwinnovator wrote:
I have several IRS rear torsion housing /with control arms and spring plates, etc.. just for this purpose.

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.

If your not confidant in doing the conversion, bring it to me.


You are nuts! I've done several conversions with the "weld-in" brackets and it is way easier, stronger, and "safer" than a total pan cut would be!
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

This is what makes internet forums fun. OP asks exactly one question total often never to be heard from again.

I'd ask why do you want to swap your swingaxle? Is it broken? Someone tell you you have to have a "freeway fliyer?"

bugba69 wrote:
I've got a '66 beetle I'm thinking of switching out the swing axle tranny and replacing it with an IRS tranny. Is this a bad idea? Are there some IRS trannys that aren't compatible with the '66 frame?


Exactly zero IRS transmissions are compatible with '66. Takes some welding and extra parts at a minimum.

We routinely do the conversion because we have far more IRS transaxles than we do old swings. We like IRS in the back and link pin in the front 'cuz that's what survives off- road.

Whether it's good or bad is subjective. If you pay $1300 for a rebuilt transaxle, if you have to pay someone to weld in the trailing arm brackets, if you need to buy the trailing arms, the axles, the torsion bars and the spring plates and then pay to have all that installed... yeah, it may be a bad idea.
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vwinnovator
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

RCP Phx wrote:
vwinnovator wrote:
I have several IRS rear torsion housing /with control arms and spring plates, etc.. just for this purpose.

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.

If your not confidant in doing the conversion, bring it to me.


You are nuts! I've done several conversions with the "weld-in" brackets and it is way easier, stronger, and "safer" than a total pan cut would be!


does this mean no one should shorten chassis for dune buggies or kit cars either Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
or do torsion raises for drag cars....

safer, stronger... guess that depends on the quality of who does the work...
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vwinnovator
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

esde wrote:
vwinnovator wrote:

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.


Easier? I would rather weld in pivots than have to splice or reroute the 4 cable guide tubes and the fuel line. If you're doing the job you should be doing the bushings too, so it's not really extra work to take it apart, IMO


I find it easier...
and without having to buy or rent jigs, without having to R/I control arms and spring plates multiple times to set up jigs...(the jigs which are close, but have room for error)

If you start with the back 1/2 of a complete IRS chassis, It's pretty straight forward.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

vwinnovator wrote:
esde wrote:
vwinnovator wrote:

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.


Easier? I would rather weld in pivots than have to splice or reroute the 4 cable guide tubes and the fuel line. If you're doing the job you should be doing the bushings too, so it's not really extra work to take it apart, IMO


I find it easier...
and without having to buy or rent jigs, without having to R/I control arms and spring plates multiple times to set up jigs...(the jigs which are close, but have room for error)

If you start with the back 1/2 of a complete IRS chassis, It's pretty straight forward.


Do you do this with the body on? Do you use a frame table? How do you jig it to keep it square?
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

bugba69 wrote:
I've got a '66 beetle I'm thinking of switching out the swing axle tranny and replacing it with an IRS tranny. Is this a bad idea? Are there some IRS trannys that aren't compatible with the '66 frame?

For example, would something like this work on mine even though the description says it fits '69-'70?
https://socalautoparts.com/product/transmission-bu...GmEALw_wcB

The simple answer is... NO, it's will not just bolt in.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like this topic has morphed into "how to convert a swingaxle pan to a IRS pan.
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RCP Phx
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

You could convert the irs trans to swing-axle!

Last edited by RCP Phx on Mon May 09, 2022 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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vwinnovator
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

RickS wrote:
vwinnovator wrote:
esde wrote:
vwinnovator wrote:

It's much easier to make a cut off at the tunnel and then weld in an IRS torsion, than to put in the pivots, and gather all the other components.


Easier? I would rather weld in pivots than have to splice or reroute the 4 cable guide tubes and the fuel line. If you're doing the job you should be doing the bushings too, so it's not really extra work to take it apart, IMO


I find it easier...
and without having to buy or rent jigs, without having to R/I control arms and spring plates multiple times to set up jigs...(the jigs which are close, but have room for error)

If you start with the back 1/2 of a complete IRS chassis, It's pretty straight forward.


Do you do this with the body on? Do you use a frame table? How do you jig it to keep it square?


I have..but it's quicker with the body out of the way..

Lots of measuring.. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

RCP Phx wrote:
You could convert the irs trans to swing-axle!


Yes, but only if it is the 8-bolt ring gear double side cover units- 73-later single side cover units cannot be done up into a swingaxle.

You would need to find a AH(?) code trans from I think 69-72~ish unit to start. A lot of the aftermarket trans use the later SSC units as a base.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

The ring gear doesn't matter as the super diff is drilled for both patterns, but yes you are correct on the -72 double side cover cases.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

The reason I was looking to change it to an IRS tranny was because I was thinking of lowering the back and I didn't want to create camber issues. I thought the IRS tranny would help prevent the camber issues. Since it sounds like it's not worth doing all the modification needs to convert it, how do I use a swing axle and lower the back without creating camber issues?
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: IRS tranny on 66 Beetle Reply with quote

Raise the transaxle, again large a amount of work.
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