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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12687
Location: Western Canada
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 Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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I personally would rather buy a rebuildable core that is complete than a basket load of parts who's origins and completeness are in question. How do you know it's all there? How do you know the rods are from a 1.7l, a 2.0l etc.? Or 3 from one and one from another? How do you know some greasy finger guy didn't hammer the piston pins out with a sledge and bend all the rods? Are those matching heads or did one come off a 1.7l and the other from a 2.0l? To me, when rebuilding an engine, a complete set of nuts, bolts and washers are pretty valuable in time and aggravation. Highly unlikely to get that in 3 boxes of random engine parts! When buying a complete untouched engine I know that at one time at least, they were all matching parts than worked together in harmony.
No, as a buyer a complete, untouched engine is worth far more than a pile of parts and a promise. Of course a compression/leak down test would increase my confidence but a pile of used parts is just scrap metal to me.
That is my view point from a buyer's perspective.
Now if you want to part them out piece by piece that is a totally different story, a totally different conversation and yes you will eventually get more money that way but it will take lots of time and effort. In the end you will still be left with a pile of bits to dispose of.
As for price... buy them low enough that you can take any reasonable offer and don't get stuck on a price point. If you absolutely have to have $700 each, then you paid too much in the first place.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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| oprn wrote: |
I personally would rather buy a rebuildable core that is complete than a basket load of parts who's origins and completeness are in question. How do you know it's all there? How do you know the rods are from a 1.7l, a 2.0l etc.? Or 3 from one and one from another? How do you know some greasy finger guy didn't hammer the piston pins out with a sledge and bend all the rods? Are those matching heads or did one come off a 1.7l and the other from a 2.0l? To me, when rebuilding an engine, a complete set of nuts, bolts and washers are pretty valuable in time and aggravation. Highly unlikely to get that in 3 boxes of random engine parts! When buying a complete untouched engine I know that at one time at least, they were all matching parts than worked together in harmony.
No, as a buyer a complete, untouched engine is worth far more than a pile of parts and a promise. Of course a compression/leak down test would increase my confidence but a pile of used parts is just scrap metal to me.
That is my view point from a buyer's perspective.
Now if you want to part them out piece by piece that is a totally different story, a totally different conversation and yes you will eventually get more money that way but it will take lots of time and effort. In the end you will still be left with a pile of bits to dispose of.
As for price... buy them low enough that you can take any reasonable offer and don't get stuck on a price point. If you absolutely have to have $700 each, then you paid too much in the first place. |
I am not sure you are getting the differnce here. I am not....and I don't think anyone else has either in this thread.....suggested that the ENGINE....should be disassembled. As I stated....you should keep the long blocks as a long block. The case, crank, rods, pistons, cylinders, heads, cam, oil pump....all stays as a unit.
Also...just because it's assembled and complete does not mean....neatly 50 years down the line....that anything in it is original.
The rest of the outer equipment....sell separately.
If the long blocks are worth it you can actually make more money this way.
But $700 is high for a pile of stuff that may or may not be useful. Let me give an example.
If I were buying one for my own use (which would a 411/412 car).....and if they are actually originally for a bus......then most of the sheet metal is worthless for my uses. Half the intake manifold system is worthless to me. The distributor is worthless to me. The rear hanger bar is worthless to me. The flywheel "may" be worthless to me. The shroud is different and the heat exchangers while somewhat useful are different
So......why would I pay a premium price plus extra shipping for parts I do not need and cannot use.
The same problems exists for other applications. If one is buying a bus core for use in a 914....virtually everything but the alternator and intake runners and a couple pieces of top sheet metal is worthless.
Same issue if one of these cores is a 2.0 for a 914 and someone with a bus needs it. A lot of the parts just will not fit.
I just don't see why he is pushing for $700 for a complete with all external systems engine that only is really exactly useful and worth that amount.....for an owner that has the exact same application that the engine came from.....and still to be worth $700....it has to he run-able.....it has to have no damage short of normal wear for the mileage....and you need to know the mileage.
Personally I don't know many people who would NOT strip one of these down if they bought one to check for the "type 4 syndrome" on the strainer, check for the common type 4 cam and lifter wear pattern and to check on the bottom end and to check the valve seats. Check to make sure they do not have the head gaskets....which they will if they are undisturbed factory engines.....and get rid of said gaskets before they torch a head and cylinder....
If I'm going to have to tear it down to be sure it's not a grenade without a pin....why would I spend premium money, premium shipping and potentially buy a pile of parts I don't need?
I guess what I am really saying....is that if you want or need $700 for each one.....clean them up....test run them on a stand.....pull the heads first just to make sure the gaskets are gone and the seats are good.....while you are at it....take a peek through a pushrod tube at the cam lobes to look for the high milage wear pattern and take a picture.
If you are selling these as decent moderate to low WEAR (because you cannot guarantee what the mileage is).....RUNNERS.....you might just get $700. Ray |
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FarmerBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017
Posts: 766
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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| richparker wrote: |
There’s no way I’m gonna believe that there is no market for T4 cores when you can’t buy a T4 case and I hardly see them come up for sale. The price I originally posted might be a little high, but there’s definitely gotta be a market for them.
This guy wants $2k
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2443222 |
That guy is crazy if he thinks he's getting 2k for a mystery long block. And cases do come up, just not as frequently as T1. I bought two t4 cases in the past two years one was from a 914, I payed $100 and also got a flywheel two cranks and two sets of heads for that price. The other was a 2 liter bus case that cost me $90. |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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i literally just saw a 1.7 case for one fiddy in the classifieds.
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nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9452
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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$700 for core? Fuck NO! 
If they have steel flywheels from 914 maybe I will do $200 core. But VW bus - maybe $150 or thereabouts. I would have to be really desperate to go $200 on bus core motor.
Don't even count on the heads being good coz they are not. Lots of exhaust pulled studs or chewed from age. The heads will be serious rework if the seats have not fallen out yet.
Don't even count on the cylinders being good.
I only consider the cores for the shortblock - that is it. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3459
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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| I dont think its fair to compare a complete longblock that has known history from the person who owned it and did regular oil changes using brad penn to a unknown core engine in varies stages of disassembly. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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I never paid more than 400 for an engine core or the whole car but it's ALL going to go up. 2-3X vs ten years ago. Busses and bugs are just Iconic piece of history, even today artists like to draw them, so they will never be forgotten.
Engine swaps will always be a temporary trend. |
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Zed999
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018
Posts: 1243
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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Over here in the uk a lot of bus owners absolutely would just install and run any old engine and if we could get a runner for UK equivalent of $700 we'd probably do a happy dance. If there was an obvious problem with it THEN we would take it apart but honestly if it was a head problem that's as far as the dismantling would go. Really.
Most of our buses were t1 1600's, there was a lot of import tax at the time so a good amount were converted from panel vans as the tax was cheaper for commercial vehicles. Different world eh?
On the other hand our roads were small, it's not far to get anywhere and they didn't get thrashed at full speed for hours on end. 6 years ago I paid £500 for an ex-bus "turnkey" 2L and there was nothing wrong with it at all. I stripped it down and made a 2.4L out of it but I bet it had no more than 40,000 easy miles on it. 6 years later that engine would be £1,000 completely untested buy as seen. Because it's not far to get anywhere people tended to avoid the motorways and plod long at 40-50 mph.
Not a chance in hell you could buy even a core for £200 unless it was obviously toasted, corroded or otherwise completely worn out. Type-4 motors here are quite a rare thing and only recently became sort after and only then because traffic moves a lot faster in recent years. The vast majority of buses here are still 1600. |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6022
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Putting the feelers out there - T4 engines |
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Modok,
I once read, the two most recognized silhouette any were in the world is old bottle of Coke Cola and a VW BUG.
It's a time machine, to people that owned them. " one women sat in it and said OMG, it still smells the same as when I was a teen "
When at a car show I let anyone sit in my bug and take photos.
Then little kids look at it like it was a toy.
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