1989 starts, idles, then dies after a couple minutes

[Wildthings]

The ECU should ignore the O2 sensor for a few seconds, 15(?) after startup even when warm. When cold it will ignore the O2 sensor until the engine is something like 140°F.

[DanHoug]

as an older VW owner, two very handy tools are a timing light and an injector noid light (the BOSCH 2 fits)

clamp the timing light on the coil wire and the noid on any injector harness. start van observe patterns as van dies. if the timing light keeps flashing to the bitter end, your ignition is still sparking. if the noid also keeps flashing to the end, the injectors are still pulsing. important pieces of info and can directly implicate mixture issues without guesswork.

note your 1989 vintage has a 2 year window (88 and 89)of the 5 blade relay problem. since it restarts immediately, this is not likely your problem but it is something you should change for reliability.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=724983&postorder=desc
_________________
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60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[aeromech]

Sunday update:

Purchased a blue CTS and a Bosch direct fit O2 sensor yesterday.

Slaved then in one at a time and tried cold start = no change. Engine runs 13 seconds and dies. Eventually after several starts it will continue to idle fine. If I do a cold start and drive it will not die. If I do a cold start and keep my foot in it to about 1300 Rpm it won’t die after a couple minutes at high idle

Once again:

Tried:
Smoke test
CTS
O2
Tested and cleaned idle control
Tested fuel pressure
Cleaned grounds
Cleaned connectors
Put a scope on injectors
Adjusted idle per Bentley
Cleaned and inspected double relays
Checked coil connections
Adjusted spark plug gaps
New rotor/ cleaned cap
Used LM 2 to monitor fuel mixture
Battery(s) and charging system fine
Hot wired coil + to check ignition switch

Lastly, the van runs fine. It’s just this annoying idle issue when cold.
Thanks in advance-Gary
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[Howesight]

So, to be clear, the issue is that using the factory idle speed control system results in the engine stopping, right? If, for example, you blipped the throttle when the engine appears about to quit, you could keep it running? Or, alternatively, if you used the accelerator to maintain a fast idle like, say, 1,200 rpm, then it would continue running?

If these are your conditions, then there are really only three possible issues that would explain all your other data:

1. The Idle Stabilizer Control Unit is faulty or wiring connected to it is faulty;
2. The Idle Control Valve is malfunctioning and needs to be replaced;
3. The base idle speed needs to be adjusted.

Bear in mind that the delicate electronic bits, especially the printed circuit board, in the ISCU live in one of the dirtiest, saltiest parts of the Van behind the (driver's side?) taillight. This is why they fail, including the often-corroded wiring connected to this unit. GoWesty sells refurbished units. Also, the ICV units do wear out. Sometimes you can get a bit more life out of them with carb cleaner followed by a quality spray lubricant. Replacement is the only certain cure if the ICV is the cause. Again, GoWesty sells new replacements. If you are thrifty like me, then note that from the early 1980's to the late 1990's VW and Audi used this same ICV on almost their entire line of cars, so they are plentiful in salvage yeards.

I see you are an aero mechanic and that might explain why you seek to have the Vanagon start and run as the factory designed and intended it to function, but many of us here on the Samba accept the often poor idling characteristics of the WBX engine and use the accelerator as the idle control system. (Not me, BTW.)

Many of the "Starts then dies after a few minutes" threads are concerned with a true stall that pressing the accelerator cannot save. I think this miscommunication explains the wide variety of possible causes that you see in the thread above.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[danfromsyr]

reading through the list.
I'm not sure I see that the WOT & IDLE switches on the T-body were adjusted.
perhaps the ICM doesn't know the throttle is at rest so it can effectively manage it.

if you jump the power steering switch wires does it bump the idle?
_________________

[aeromech]

[aeromech]

[DanHoug]

[danfromsyr]

indeed you need to verify that the throttle body closed switch is doing it's thing and telling the ECU/ICV that the throttle is closed.


the PS switch is there to bump the idle slightly when the PS is turned to full lock in cold (thick) fluid so the pump doesn't bring down the idle and stall the vehicle. so it is 'involved' in the ICV idle logic.
essentially the same need/function that a AC switch tells a ECU/ICV idle circuit.

side tangent in a 83.5-85 Digijet system there would be 1 or 2 solenoid idle valves that the AC or PS would trigger to allow a 'sized hose' idle bypass circuit. (similar to early VW CIS car fuel systems).
_________________

[aeromech]

Update:

Just got done messing with the ps switch. Disconnected there was no change. Jumpered, the idle went up to 1400. The engine would not die. Reading the switch with a Fluke multimeter showed me that the switch sort of bounced around. Might be a bad switch. That said, during all of these starts/dies routines I never moved the wheel.

Now, everything restored AND moving lock to lock the engine will die at full deflection. So, not sure what to do right now
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Wildthings]

If your problem is in the Idle Control Valve system, another option is to use an Aux Air Regulator in its stead.

[aeromech]

[danfromsyr]

digifant manual page #14
#19 in this PDF
https://bowwoweddie.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/vanagon_protraining_digifant_i_86-91.pdf
_________________

[kamzcab86]

[danfromsyr]

Bump, any resolution?

[aeromech]

[djkeev]

The 2.1 WBX cold idle is a time/temperature thing.

The coolant temperature sensor II on the thermostat housing (two different plug styles, get the correct one)

The air temperature sensor built into theAir Flow Meter. Not serviceable

The O2 sensor is "off line" when cold and the engine uses a stock program built into the ECU when cold or unplugged.

The Auxiliary Air Valve works on feedback from multiple sources.

Your problem is one of these components or the wiring to/from them.

Go to Kam's blog about her Van Old Blue.
She has updated the Fuel Injection manual with corrections and color.
A link is found in the FAQ section as well.

There is no magic bullet, it is all trial and error by testing and replacement.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[pbgerman]

I know this thread is old. I read through the entire thing because I was having a similar problem of Vanagon starting but after a minute or so it would shut off.
I first thought that it was because I hadn't driven much in the last 50 days.

One day, after not driving it for a while and it had rained quite a bit here in sunny San Diego I took it for a drive past many puddles to splash as much water as possible because it seemed like fun and made me feel like a kid again. It seemed fun. I drove the van a week or so after and it stalled several times. I wasn't sure what it was then but all I did is pull over and start the van long enough for the engine to stay on. I went home, parked van and didn't drive it for at least another month.

Last week I tried several times to keep it on while it started. Van would start but would die after a minute or so.

As I mentioned before I read all of the messages on this thread up until now.
The first thing i tried was to disconnect the O2 Sensor. I noticed right away that it was corroded and still moist. Left O2 sensor disconnected. I went to drivers seat, cranked, and van started right away and stayed on. Went back to the O2 sensor connector, cleaned it up, sprayed w2-40, reconnected it. ignition turned on and vanagon stayed on for as long as I was willing to let it.

The solution to my problem was the O2 sensor having corroded due to the moisture that got into it when I was playing around driving vanagon through puddles.

Thanks to all of you that posted replies to original poster. I tried the easiest suggestion and was lucky enough for it to have solved my problem.

It's past noon here now. Im getting a beer