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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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mouse action
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2022
Posts: 132
Location: East curse
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 Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:31 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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You purists can be tough on a car,coming from a Mopar background I can appreciate that.I understand that it’s far from original and I like that,I don’t want a car that has to spend it’s life under a cover in a garage,I want to use it and enjoy it.I crawled all over this car and it looks to be in good shape,what other then whats already been pointed out makes this a bad decision? Other then the price.looking at others I found this one to be the nicest.not many choices around.
Thank you all for your input. |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3031
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:55 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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I understand how you feel. Yes, the car is very attractive and eye catching and will draw a lot of attention from general public. It looks very good. Some of the issues brought up are not by themselves deal breakers and can be easily resolved. Like the missing snaps for the boot are easy to install. It's a nice car. We're just saying that $40k can buy you a near top end Karmann Ghia. To me this car is priced according to its appearance and this cars appearance would not satisfy many Ghia enthusiasts. So resale down the road is likely to be a disappointment.
Since you're into vintage cars, I assume you might know about BAT auctions, (Bring A Trailer). I find it to be an excellent resource for finding values. All cars on BAT, stay online after the auction ends for viewing, including all photos, descriptions, and comments from watchers. Cars are usually well vetted and prices often are top dollar for the condition. So I would suggest looking at past auctions on Karmann Ghias and see what you should expect for $40k and up. Here's the link. If you're budget is in this price range, you'll find a much better car on Bat. They come around more often than you might think.
https://bringatrailer.com/volkswagen/karmann-ghia/
Generally, there is only 2 kinds of Ghias that will hit 40k and up.
1. A very well sorted original convertible.
2. A well thought out resto-mod with a custom built performance engine and suspension.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1677
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 5:17 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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I agree with Marcdeb. The problem with this car is the asking price, given its condition. $40k should buy you a trailer queen Ghia that'll spend it's life under a car cover. This car is not that, and the asking price is around 3x what it should be. If all you want is a good looking driver, you can find that for way less money.
For example, $28k asking in nicer condition.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2519548
Or if money is no object and you want to buy that 71 to enjoy driving around for a couple years, and then take a bath on it when you sell it, that's up to you. But the bodywork issues (which are $$$$$ issues that can only be corrected by a strip and repaint), and IMO the non-factory (non-period correct) color, are going to hurt you on re-sale. Alot of people who know these cars really well are giving you good advice here.
And I think maybe you aren't understanding the importance of the missing rocker seams. 99% of the time, rocker seams get bondo'd over to cover rust holes in the rockers. 99% of the time, the Karmann Ghia badge on the passenger front fender gets bondo'd over to cover rust on the fender. It's the cheap, fast, low quality way to fix these cars up. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who knows these cars well is going to look at that car and tell you the rockers are rusty. And that will hurt you on resale. I guarantee that.
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue
Last edited by Era Vulgaris on Wed May 18, 2022 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:00 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| If you are set on buying this car, use the original jack in the jack point and jack it up until both wheels are off the ground (do both sides) and watch the door gaps for change and rust dust on the ground, if you see either it's a body off repair and repaint. With rusted support channels the car will slowly fold up pinching the doors and be down right dangerous in a wreck. This is what we're trying to point out to you. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:45 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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I really regret my original comment. Here it is...
"Agreed.
Welcome to the world of coach built old world craftsmanship!
As everyone else has mentioned, the restoration seem nice with minimal shortcuts. One being the missing visors. The second is the window trim delete.
Cal look seals belong on Cal Lookers Smile
Otherwise, congrats on a very nice looking KG Cool"
So, I went to the website and took a good hard look, again.
The convertible top looks like it might be missing the inner padding.
The original tops were 3-piece. Top Canvas or vinyl, insulated & padded center finished by a inner headliner. It's a true cabriolet top.
The rockers have hopefully been replaced and not just skimmed over with filler or skinned with new metal. The missing rocker joints are not a huge issue as long as the repairs were done correctly.
A KG convertible relies on the rocker structure for lateral support. They have a reinforcement member sandwiched within that rocker. If it's rusted it doesn't matter if a metal skin was replaced. The reinforcement needs replaced too.
No underside photo's so it's hard to tell what the floors look like. Ghia floor's especially convertibles are known for rusting through. Repairs are common but again, at that price it should be well done.
As you are finding out KG's are no longer cheap.
The one you like (on the surface) looks great. You're a car guy so you know what makes the whole package. Mopars & Karmann Ghia's are both cars at the end of the day.
If you end up with it most will absolutely love it.
Ghia's are IMO the nicest looking cars ever built. Most will not know or care about the shortcomings.
I really wish you the best of luck.
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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cruiser
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2003
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:03 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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Mouse Action, the opinions left on your post are by owners/enthusiasts that are well-invested into the Karmann Ghia. Please, please take heed of their advise.
At $39,900, I would have to agree that this example should be an original, well-sorted, complete and perhaps, a low-mile cabriolet. To each his own (and I've never been a big fan of a complete color switch on a vehicle) but for the amount being asked, you would think the builder would have spent a little more time masking off the ID tag before painting the car a different color - allowing the original Willow Green(?) paint to be exposed (see last photo from the dealer's pictorial).
No rocker seams, no Karmann Ghia badge on the passenger front fender, funkiness going on in the engine compartment corners, strange convertible top rebuild, many parts missing, etc., has me quickly looking elsewhere!! |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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Not all these guys are purist stock Nazis. But they do value top quality work even on customs. This is not top quality for the myriad of reasons pointed out.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| The rockers have hopefully been replaced |
The right side one has been. If you look closely at one of the ad photos showing the right side (I can't figure out how to post the image here below this paragraph  so just click on the link), you can see that the very bottom edge of the rocker is not a straight line- the section beneath the doors is ever so slightly lower towards the front. This is telltale of a rocker skin replacement. A factory rocker panel installation has the bottom edge in a straight line, from the rear edge of the front wheelwell opening to the front edge of the rear opening. https://www.motorcarclassics.com/galleria_images/815/815_p16_l.jpg?random=1652915754
The Cabrio-only internal rocker stiffener is a "C" profile and is completely invisible from the outside. Unfortunately there is no easy way to confirm it's there. The suggestion above about raising up one side of the car and viewing the top of the door gap would give a practical indication if the rocker is providing sufficient rigidity.
The yellow '70 in theSamba ad looks very encouraging. You can clearly see the proper rocker seams on the photo of the one side of the car. Unfortunately there are no shots in the ad with the top up, nor of course of the headliner. The engine compartment is often neglected; or during repaint of the body, not painted at all or painted flat black like this one. A very common rust area is the flat section of the engine compartment surround panel on which the battery sits. Acid overflow from a hot battery can drip down along the sides of the battery and collect under the battery, initially out of sight. That acid can corrode the metal beneath it. Luckily there are a few vendors of good patch panels for that direct section. I cannot see enough of the '70's engine compartment to view that area. Often there is a crude patch installed beneath the battery to bridge over any rot hole.
The engine has dual carburetors, single-throat Weber 34 ICT or clones. Low-end carburetor linkage. The trunk looks clean at first glance but has some telltale rough paint along the vertical sides coming towards the front of the car. The car's overall stance is perfect, whereby the wheels are chromed and slightly more deep dish than an original wheel. Probably 4.5" wide.
Observations on the '70's interior:
-Has sun visors 
-Low-end aftermarket carpet
-Factory woodgrain vinyl dash face has been removed, though the remnant slots have been filled decently and the face resprayed in body color- looks good.
-Front seat cushion has a scuff guard along the front lower edge- I don't remember that on the original '70 seats I had 35 yrs ago on a parts Ghia...
-Window winders are much later and repro style
-Dash top pad appears to be a replacement
-Is that a lot of yellow overspray on the upper left corner of the windshield, or just a strange reflection of the outside surface? |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1677
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 5:46 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| Rome wrote: |
The yellow '70 in theSamba ad looks very encouraging. You can clearly see the proper rocker seams on the photo of the one side of the car. Unfortunately there are no shots in the ad with the top up, nor of course of the headliner. The engine compartment is often neglected; or during repaint of the body, not painted at all or painted flat black like this one. A very common rust area is the flat section of the engine compartment surround panel on which the battery sits. Acid overflow from a hot battery can drip down along the sides of the battery and collect under the battery, initially out of sight. That acid can corrode the metal beneath it. Luckily there are a few vendors of good patch panels for that direct section. I cannot see enough of the '70's engine compartment to view that area. Often there is a crude patch installed beneath the battery to bridge over any rot hole.
The engine has dual carburetors, single-throat Weber 34 ICT or clones. Low-end carburetor linkage. The trunk looks clean at first glance but has some telltale rough paint along the vertical sides coming towards the front of the car. The car's overall stance is perfect, whereby the wheels are chromed and slightly more deep dish than an original wheel. Probably 4.5" wide.
Observations on the '70's interior:
-Has sun visors
-Low-end aftermarket carpet
-Factory woodgrain vinyl dash face has been removed, though the remnant slots have been filled decently and the face resprayed in body color- looks good.
-Front seat cushion has a scuff guard along the front lower edge- I don't remember that on the original '70 seats I had 35 yrs ago on a parts Ghia...
-Window winders are much later and repro style
-Dash top pad appears to be a replacement
-Is that a lot of yellow overspray on the upper left corner of the windshield, or just a strange reflection of the outside surface? |
Yeah, I said "nicer", not "perfect" 
Just thrown out there as an example for the OP of a price point vs condition reference.
And that's clearly a reflection of the top of the door in the windshield.
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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mouse action
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2022
Posts: 132
Location: East curse
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:25 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest  deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:20 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
It's all part of the learning process so in effect you've not wasted any time, you go into the next buying experience better equipped. 
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3031
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:48 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
I think you are on the better end of this deal!
Keep watching BAT Auctions, some good cars do come across. Rumor is there is a really nice Convertible that will be listed soon. The seller is a serious Ghia enthusiast who is honest and will be very open about the car's condition.
Here's the link:
https://bringatrailer.com/volkswagen/karmann-ghia/
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
Mouse, did the purchase deal fall through because you pointed out some discrepancies described here in this thread, and the seller could not provide satisfactory answers? |
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mouse action
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2022
Posts: 132
Location: East curse
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:02 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| Rome wrote: |
| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
Mouse, did the purchase deal fall through because you pointed out some discrepancies described here in this thread, and the seller could not provide satisfactory answers? |
The dealer was dirty I think,we agreed on a very good price ,they took my money but then claimed there was problems with the harness,then apparently the car could not be repaired.no real answers ,just a run around.finally just had to end the deal and run away.i really don’t know the facts. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| mouse action wrote: |
| Rome wrote: |
| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
Mouse, did the purchase deal fall through because you pointed out some discrepancies described here in this thread, and the seller could not provide satisfactory answers? |
The dealer was dirty I think,we agreed on a very good price ,they took my money but then claimed there was problems with the harness,then apparently the car could not be repaired.no real answers ,just a run around.finally just had to end the deal and run away.i really don’t know the facts. |
That car was a turd.
You have an excellent recourse here of experienced, knowledgeable and objective Ghia people. Listen and you’ll end up with a good car.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| mouse action wrote: |
| Rome wrote: |
| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
Mouse, did the purchase deal fall through because you pointed out some discrepancies described here in this thread, and the seller could not provide satisfactory answers? |
The dealer was dirty I think,we agreed on a very good price ,they took my money but then claimed there was problems with the harness,then apparently the car could not be repaired.no real answers ,just a run around.finally just had to end the deal and run away.i really don’t know the facts. |
That car was a turd.
You have an excellent recourse here of experienced, knowledgeable and objective Ghia people. Listen and you’ll end up with a good car. |
Yeah but to be fair to "Mouse" it is very easy to fall in love with the cosmetic images of a Karmann Ghia. As I read his opening comments he implied he'd already taken the first official steps to commitment so the element of caution suggested were difficult to act upon. Hey but that was then.
Now he has a knowledgeable support group. Time to start again with a new suit of armour.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mouse action
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2022
Posts: 132
Location: East curse
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| Enough with the personal options of who I am ,,,,,but I do appreciate the observations of the car….moving on . |
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Fender93
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2010
Posts: 12
Location: CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:54 am Post subject: Re: New ghia guy |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
| mouse action wrote: |
Well after all this time ,somehow the dealer can’t sell me the car,Bla,Bla,Bla,,,,
I get my money back ,But that was the wonkiest deal I ever got involved with.hopefully better luck next round. |
I think you are on the better end of this deal!
Keep watching BAT Auctions, some good cars do come across. Rumor is there is a really nice Convertible that will be listed soon. The seller is a serious Ghia enthusiast who is honest and will be very open about the car's condition.
Here's the link:
https://bringatrailer.com/volkswagen/karmann-ghia/ |
+1 on this - as I'm sure any who know him will agree with, the seller is a great guy and is completely honest about the car he's selling. |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3031
Location: Vermont
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