2332 Build - End play question

[mikelars]

One other question - does much oil flow to the 3 shims behind the main seal? Just trying to figure out how the passages go to lead oil to those shims…
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[jpaull]

[txoval]

Since I’m mocking up my 2276 now, I decided to test my dial indicator vs my old feeler gauge tool.

.001” difference…as said above, maybe okay for a stock engine, but not a performance build

Be glad you have enough room to use three shims…mine is showing .0315” end play with no shims

Porsche used one thicker shim…VW used 3 due to looser machine tolerances

Two shims…probably not going to work

[mikelars]

[txoval]

Bottom line was .001 difference…in my case the feeler gauge would produce .001 more end play than actual

But other feeler gauges could be .001” the other way

[jpaull]

Interesting note, 3 of the garden variety chromo flyweels i have tried all didnt have enuff room to use 3 shims and get more then .0375. Gave up on them and just been ordering the lightened German ones from DPR and of course they have all the needed room to run 3 + shims and get the clearance needed.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[txoval]

That’s what kills me, mine is a DPR crank and flywheel

Thrust surfaces of the bearing have been DFL coated, but that shouldn’t matter

First time I’ve experienced this one. On my 36hp build I used a single Porsche shim…I know John C has stated in the past that shim qty doesn’t matter

Some have run 4-5, maybe just two is ok

[67rustavenger]

[nsracing]

You have to hear that 'thud' when you move that flywheel. I don't care what you are reading on the gauge. No thud = siezed engine.

If it is an honest 0.003" you will hear a thud. But 0.005" is the surest way not to cook that engine.

You gotta hear that 'thud'. I set the endplay while it is still in the shortblock. YOu won't have the pistons dragging everything down.

Yea I remember that case - JPaull. That was years ago.

[mikelars]

I hear the thud on the 0.005 feeler gauge endplay. But I just bought a dial gauge to compare - so I’ll post the comparison when it arrives…

The way I did the feeler gauge was to use a long bolt through a clutch bolt hole and line it up with the flat section on the bell housing at top left. Then I push in the fly wheel all the way and gently screw in the long clutch bolt until it hits the flat spot on the bell housing. Firm but not moving the flywheel back. Then I do the little yank on the flywheel and use a feeler gauge on the bolt - similar to a valve check.

I got 0.005 through with friction, and I couldn’t get the 0.006 through.

Repeated with two clutch holes and being careful on the bell housing location to check against. Consistent results.

Dial gauge will be interesting now at this point…
_________________
Here is my 1961 Beetle Restoration:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2qXEPvdnfvEzN42T8JA8zO

Here is my 1966 Split Bus - Restoration Channel:
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2332 Torque Motor Build
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2HwsKM9QT4LFpcSqP3QG0p

Engine Rebuild 1968cc Playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny1JbZ2EgJQQ2awfo0koZRqz

[chrisflstf]

You can also have the flywheel snout machined down a hair to get more clearance, but the surface needs to be finished very smooth. It seems we are running in the low end of shims needed now, instead of being more of the middle of the road for variances.

[nsracing]

Mike - watched your vids on YT on the clearance work. I cringed a lot! Why are you letting the rods slide themselves on the sealing surface of the case?

Also - when you check for clearance...you have to move the particular rod..the way it is gonna run in the motor. That means - center the rod as if it is inside its own cylinder. An amatuer way is to install the pistons w/o the rings in the cylinders and bolt the head on so you can see how much you need to take off from the cam.

Once you get really adept at clearancing stuff, you will be able to do this without mocking the rod/pistons in the cylinders.

Whatever you clearance on the cam, it goes the same on opposite side of that cheek.

I will just post it here what it is supposed to look like so you don't have to hunt for it. YOu are giving me pain -

Here -

That is an 84mm crank in that - I did not clearance the rods. No need. You want the rods to be strong as possible -so try not to molest them.

[mikelars]

Well the short answer is lack of experience. Anything I am doing poorly is from never feeling the pain of what happens when it is done poorly

But - I do have a fantastic 1968cc motor - certainly built with some amateur hacks.

On the cam to rods - I was trying to clearance the minimum needed - what I did seems to spin great with pretty large visible clearance gaps between rod and cam with all angles of the rod. I took the corners off the rods just as an insurance policy. I know some people wouldn’t touch the rods. I barely took anything off.

I will check the sealing surfaces - I was not trying to scratch anything up.

Making good progress though - I think if you saw the motor setup - it is actually pretty solid at this point. Just the techniques to get there may be questionable.

No doubt your clearancing photo is done WAY better than mine. Mine is no where as smooth. But starting with an FK42 the flat sides almost cleared the 84 crank as is - I had the cam in 33 degrees wrong due to the 3 bolt cam gear orientation with the dot.

Part of the fun for me is figuring out what to do in cases where I don’t have the exact right tool or the experience to just know. BUT so far - my biggest mistake was to burn out a rod bearing on my first 1904 motor - because I left one rod in there with a tight fit when I should have swapped it out.
_________________
Here is my 1961 Beetle Restoration:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2qXEPvdnfvEzN42T8JA8zO

Here is my 1966 Split Bus - Restoration Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCPBRysmvrJlif2wzwEwiuwQ

2332 Torque Motor Build
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2HwsKM9QT4LFpcSqP3QG0p

Engine Rebuild 1968cc Playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny1JbZ2EgJQQ2awfo0koZRqz

[txoval]

Put your head studs in and run a rubber band thru the rod and around the head studs…two per rod. This keeps the rod center as if in the cylinder

Did you take the rods off to clearance them? I hope so

[nsracing]

clerance should be at least the thickness of the rod bearing. I like twice that -

And same goes for your deck height - a safe deck is about the thickness of the rod bearing.

So ..when you lose the bearing will not eat everything in its pathway. We are all amatuers at one point.

AT least you got guts enough to do this - many will just pussy-out.

[67rustavenger]

[Bad bug]

I have heard in the past to use .006 on the end play for performance engines. Does anyone here run that much?

[modok]

IMO .005" would be a minimum for a high powered VW.

[mikelars]

[mikelars]