Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kalebd21
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2022
Posts: 3
Location: Germany
kalebd21 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 5:40 pm    Post subject: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

I just bought a '72 STD Beetle and I'm already discovering that it appears to be a frankenbeetle. From my research it has 62-67 tail lights retrofitted to the fenders. My question is how do I go about attaching the wiring since it is completely different with no reverse lights and all. Should I follow the '72 wiring diagram and attach accordingly? The wiring colors are different so thats making me confused and uneasy about hooking them up. I apologize if this is a newbie question, I am just getting started in the VW Beetle world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RLFD213
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 325

RLFD213 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

My beetle is set up the same way. When I wired the car I just didn’t hook up the reverse light wire. Brakes and turn signal were connected but reverse was just capped and tucked away
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rome
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: Pearl River, NY
Rome is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

Quote:
I just bought a '72 STD Beetle

Do you have the base 1200 cc "Sparkaefer", or the 1300 cc? Big difference with vehicle equipment such as bumper style and taillamps; a 1200 still had the "62 - '67 taillamps and '67 style simple single bumper blade.

Wiring diagrams are here on theSamba in the "Technical" tab at the upper right.

If you have a 1300 that originally had the "tombstone" taillamps, then the wires on your Beetle should match up with '67 style's running lamps, turn signals, and brake lamps. Specifically, the wiring diagram for a 1300 would have 3 of the same 4 wire colors as for a 1200. The only extra wire you may have would be for the reverse lamps, but you can add a single or pair of '67 style reverse lamps to the rear bumper. Run the reverse wire through the body where the other 3 wires go to the left taillamp, then make an extension from the end of the original factory wire to reach your lamp(s) on the rear bumper. You only need the single wire for power because the lamp(s) grounds itself via the bumper.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalebd21
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2022
Posts: 3
Location: Germany
kalebd21 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Quote:
I just bought a '72 STD Beetle

Do you have the base 1200 cc "Sparkaefer", or the 1300 cc? Big difference with vehicle equipment such as bumper style and taillamps; a 1200 still had the "62 - '67 taillamps and '67 style simple single bumper blade.

Wiring diagrams are here on theSamba in the "Technical" tab at the upper right.

If you have a 1300 that originally had the "tombstone" taillamps, then the wires on your Beetle should match up with '67 style's running lamps, turn signals, and brake lamps. Specifically, the wiring diagram for a 1300 would have 3 of the same 4 wire colors as for a 1200. The only extra wire you may have would be for the reverse lamps, but you can add a single or pair of '67 style reverse lamps to the rear bumper. Run the reverse wire through the body where the other 3 wires go to the left taillamp, then make an extension from the end of the original factory wire to reach your lamp(s) on the rear bumper. You only need the single wire for power because the lamp(s) grounds itself via the bumper.



I appreciate the reply and guidance. The more I start digging into this car and wiring, the more I realize the previous owner really did a disservice to it. I checked and it is in fact labeled as a 1200 on the metal plate in the trunk. With that said, I have attached some pictures of what's going on and hopefully can get some input.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


LH tail and I also included the wiring going into the engine compartment.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


RH tail along with wiring in the engine comp. Plate light wires were also cut too and just dangling


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'm throwing these in for good measure too because after comparing it to other threads, the fuse box connections aren't correct either. I may be in for some real assistance on this one from the Bug gurus....or just go with a new wiring harness...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rome
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: Pearl River, NY
Rome is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

You've provided some good clues with some of your photos. Even though your Beetle has the '67 style taillamps, this photo shows that the original factory harness has the 3 wires for the '67 lamps, but also an extra blue wire. That blue wire is likely for the reverse lamp which would've been for the 1300's "tombstone" style taillamp. I don't know what the brown wire is for; possibly a ground wire from the taillamp mounting lug that would go down and attach to a small metal tab on the left flat "shelf" next to the engine. On my '77 Beetle, that tab is located right at the corner of the engine compartment side panel and that shelf so that it would be hidden by the sound insulation panel.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This photo shows the same 4 wires coming from the taillamp harness. The blue wire would've been inserted in the leftmost of the 4-pair wire connector, to the bottom chamber. The upper chamber of that connector would've had a single black wire going to the engine, since the reverse lamp circuit was powered by an inline fuse that came off the "15" terminal on the engine's ignition coil.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The 3 wires going out of the top of the connectors go forward to the fusebox. The wire colors correspond to those from the '72 factory wiring diagram. This diagram would be for a 1300 German Beetle with the "tombstone" taillamps. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_std_super_72.jpg The two red wires coming out of the upper chamber of the right connector correspond to the brake lamp circuit. One of the red wires comes back from the front of the car- the 2 switches on your master cylinder. The other red wire should go over to the right side of the car to the right taillamp's brake lamp connector or lamp socket.

So you have a bit of research to do as to your taillamps. But since the wires are currently connected to the lamp housings/bulb holders themselves, hopefully they function as intended.

What is your intention with the Beetle? If you truly have a 1300 that would've originally had the larger tombstone taillamps with integrated reverse lamps, retrofit them? Should be easy since the wires are still mostly there.

Here's a really nicely kept '72 Sparkaefer, coincidentally the same blue as yours originally was as seen from your fusebox area. This one is from alex857 who lives in southern Germany.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalebd21
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2022
Posts: 3
Location: Germany
kalebd21 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
That blue wire is likely for the reverse lamp which would've been for the 1300's "tombstone" style taillamp. I don't know what the brown wire is for; possibly a ground wire from the taillamp mounting lug that would go down and attach to a small metal tab on the left flat "shelf" next to the engine.


Thanks for the input! It seems to be the conclusion that I came up with since that blue wire is for reverse lights according to the schematic. I think I have found the answers on other threads but the 1300 tombstone tail lights should fit if I wanted to swap them out correct? Shouldn't need any modification to the fender at all? I'd honestly like to have the tombstone lights that way I can just have my reverse lights integrated into the tail light housing rather than attaching to the bumper.

Did the tombstone lights not have that brown ground wire?? Would it attach to the tail light housing itself and then to the shelf as you mentioned?

Rome wrote:
The upper chamber of that connector would've had a single black wire going to the engine, since the reverse lamp circuit was powered by an inline fuse that came off the "15" terminal on the engine's ignition coil.


Since the reverse lighting wires were either modified or never hooked up, this is a wire I am missing that attaches to the coil. After looking at the wiring diagram I finally realized that along with the wires that come back through the firewall that attach to the transmission as well.

Rome wrote:
So you have a bit of research to do as to your taillamps. But since the wires are currently connected to the lamp housings/bulb holders themselves, hopefully they function as intended.


Unfortunately, the lighting isn't working as designed currently. When I pull out the headlight switch, everything turns on including the headlights when the ignition is switched on of course. Everywhere I have read there should be three different positions but with mine there is no distinct positions. It's either all or nothing. Also, the side marker bulbs only come on the right side when the switch is pulled out for parking lights. I have a lot of wire tracing to do for sure but the wiring schematic is quite easy to follow thankfully.

Rome wrote:
What is your intention with the Beetle? If you truly have a 1300 that would've originally had the larger tombstone taillamps with integrated reverse lamps, retrofit them? Should be easy since the wires are still mostly there.


My first set of goals is fixing all of the botched wiring and then eventually start replacing everything that is worn out. Piece by piece I want to restore it and bring it back to it's original state as best possible. I have looked in the classifieds section and have found some tombstone tail lights I could use that appear to be essentially plug and play if I'm not mistaken.

Rome wrote:
Here's a really nicely kept '72 Sparkaefer, coincidentally the same blue as yours originally was as seen from your fusebox area. This one is from alex857 who lives in southern Germany.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What a beautiful car. Makes me eager to start giving this one I bought some much needed TLC. Thank you again for your input, I am slowly learning a lot as I go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Michael Ambrozik
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2020
Posts: 631
Location: San Jose, CA
Michael Ambrozik is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

The brown wire is a ground and when used with the tombstone tail lights there is a tab on the light housing for it and the other end will need to be installed in the connector and the inside of the engine compartment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rome
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: Pearl River, NY
Rome is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 62-67 taillights on 72 std Beetle Reply with quote

Quote:
the 1300 tombstone tail lights should fit if I wanted to swap them out correct? Shouldn't need any modification to the fender at all?

The only modification that is possible is to drill a new hole for one of the tombstone's mounting studs. If you have access to an original German fender from the 1300, you could measure the distance from the bottom mounting stud to the bottom of the fender, then measure the distance up to the upper stud. If the distance is larger than the 2 studs on the '67 taillamps, I would drill a new hole higher up on the fender so that you'd use the bottom hole in the fender for the bottom housing stud. Or, if the entire tombstone is up higher- likely due to the stronger bumpers- then you should use those measurements.

Once you've determined the desired height of the tombstone taillamps, make sure they are level and parallel to the ground. Use the bottom 2 lens screws as alignment guide so that when you hold a long straightedge (e.g., broomstick!) along those 4 screws, they are all parallel to the straightedge. It looks really weird when you see taillamps that are mounted at different heights.

If your Beetle has the old style blade bumpers such as alex's, they are mounted lower than the 1300 "C" channel stronger ones. If you would install the tombstone lights using the height of the 1300 fenders, you'd have a larger free space between the top of the blade bumper compared to the free space on a 1300.

Back in the mid 1970's my cousin, who was very good at reading wiring diagrams, installed the tombstone taillamps on my '60 Beetle... though I did not have a reverse light.

Sounds like your car's wiring- at least the various lights- is quite a mess. But since you still have some of the original wiring coming back to the engine compartment for the taillamps, I would try to use the factory wiring diagram, then carefully inspect each wire in the front trunk going between the fusebox and the various components. The light switch really should have 2 detents- first pull is the 'parking lights" in which the 5 watt taillamps are both on, the lic. plate light, and the 5 watt bulbs in each front blinker.

Last pull on the switch will turn the headlamps on -when the ignition is on- and likely keep the fendertop parking lamps also on. Different light switches had various internal stages, but the numbers molded into the back of the switch per your model year's wiring diagram will indicate the function of each of the switch pulls. Rotating the light switch knob provides the speedometer illumination.

Yes, the reverse lights do use a simple circuit. The circuit always has 12 V power coming off the "+" (#15) terminal on the coil when the ignition is on. Current flows through an inline fuse usually attached to the coil bracket or close by, then down to the front of the transmission. There's a simple switch there, similar to a doorbell switch. Then another wire off the other side of the trans switch which comes back into the engine compartment to a T and goes to the left and right reverse lamps. When you shift into reverse, that trans switch's contacts connect to enable current flow. Have you checked the front of your trans for that switch? It's a large hex nut with 2 terminals in the center insulator section.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.