Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

So, I replaced the turbo oil supply line a couple of weeks ago. Drove it a little bit to make sure all was running well before taking to my mechanic this week to dial in the IP. Didn't want to drive it too much, maybe about 30 miles total. The whole time there was a pretty steady leak from the turbo oil return line as well. Parked it for a couple of weeks as I drained the oil and replaced the return line waiting for my IP appointment. Started it up today to take to my mechanic and right away there is a constant steady coolant drip from what looks like the coolant flange on the back of the head, but it also looks like it's leaking from the head gasket right underneath the flange as well. WTH. How could this have happened? It was running fine and I didn't mess with anything after I parked it two weeks ago. I torqued the head bolts with the correct procedure. I was very careful. Should I try and retorque them? The coolant flange, I definitely put a little smear of gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket. Not sure if that has anything to do with the leak. Not sure how I could drive it for 30 miles without a drip of coolant, let it sit for a couple of weeks without touching anything, and then it starts leaking immediately after starting it up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

It is fairly common for a flange leak to look like a head gasket leak. Fix the flange leak before doing anything else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ndorian
Samba Member


Joined: June 23, 2018
Posts: 760
Location: Virginia
ndorian is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Your experiences are normal for that motor. In 5 years, I have spent almost as much time working on my 83 diesel as I have driving it. I am saving up for a low mileage 1Z. Get that braided line Waldo linked, or one like it. Check all coolant hoses. If they are original, I would replace them now. I ordered the rubber ones in a kit, and had no issues. Often you will discover a problem while working on something else.

I should say, until you have replaced quite a few components, your experience is not uncommon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Working on this coolant leak now. Def leaking from the flange at least. I tried to tighten it down, but it's still leaking. I used the flange from my old head, but I think I will swap on the one that was originally on it. I think the only reason I used the old flange on the new head was because my mechanic suggested it. Not sure why. When I put the gasket on the flange, I put sealer on both sides? Was this wrong? Not sure if this caused the problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

IP dialed in. All leaking fixed. Thank you guys for all of your help. However, there is a loud incessant tapping noise going on. It def has oil in it. Oil has been drained a couple of times and there is no evidence of any metal in it. I've put at least 75 miles on it since installing new head. When I was getting the IP dialed in, my mechanic listened with a stethoscope, but could not determine where the sound is coming from. Only thing I can think of, and not sure if this would have anything to do with it, but I swapped the camshaft from my old head onto the new one because they cracked the back of the cam on the new head when removing the bolt. The valves were never adjusted because the guy that sold me the new head told me that the engine was running well when pulled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Most common cause of tapping noise is pistons hitting valves because the valve timing is off.

Snapping the end of the cam is a total novice move. The camlock should never be used to hold the cam during sprocket bolt removal. A sprocket holder is the right tool for the job, and everyone experienced with these engines knows that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
Most common cause of tapping noise is pistons hitting valves because the valve timing is off.

Snapping the end of the cam is a total novice move. The camlock should never be used to hold the cam during sprocket bolt removal. A sprocket holder is the right tool for the job, and everyone experienced with these engines knows that.


Yep, I didn't snap it. What's the best way to check/adjust valve timing on a hydraulic head?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Rotate the crankshaft clockwise, and only clockwise, to TDC for #1. If you pass the TDC mark, then do not reverse the crank, instead go two more full revolutions of the crank back to exact TDC for #1 without going past it.

Remove valve cover.

Camlock should fit into the slot in the end of the camshaft and the slot should be exactly parallel with the valve cover surface.

If the camshaft is out of time enough that the valves have been tapping pistons, the cylinder head should be removed and each valve that contacted a piston should be replaced (regardless of how well it seems to currently be running).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

ndorian wrote:
The oil leak could be from the oil pan gasket. I have a 1.6 and after I changed mine I have not leaked a drop.


Don't want to start a new thread about this, but I did end up removing the oil pan and will have to replace the gasket. PO had the typical cardboardish gasket with a decent amount of sealant. As far as I can tell, it wasn't leaking. I'm replacing with a rubber gasket. Should I use sealant on this? I have both surfaces clean with all gasket and sealant material scraped off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

I use a small dab of sealant at the locations where the end plates meet the block. Otherwise dry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrissev2
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Toronto
chrissev2 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

damagd wrote:
So, I replaced the turbo oil supply line a couple of weeks ago. Drove it a little bit to make sure all was running well before taking to my mechanic this week to dial in the IP. Didn't want to drive it too much, maybe about 30 miles total. The whole time there was a pretty steady leak from the turbo oil return line as well. Parked it for a couple of weeks as I drained the oil and replaced the return line waiting for my IP appointment. Started it up today to take to my mechanic and right away there is a constant steady coolant drip from what looks like the coolant flange on the back of the head, but it also looks like it's leaking from the head gasket right underneath the flange as well. WTH. How could this have happened? It was running fine and I didn't mess with anything after I parked it two weeks ago. I torqued the head bolts with the correct procedure. I was very careful. Should I try and retorque them? The coolant flange, I definitely put a little smear of gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket. Not sure if that has anything to do with the leak. Not sure how I could drive it for 30 miles without a drip of coolant, let it sit for a couple of weeks without touching anything, and then it starts leaking immediately after starting it up.


Is there a coolant flange on the back of a 1.6 TD head? I had thought there was only one flange, on the front of the head and then a bunch of sensor locations depending on the year?

Coolant flanges routinely leak. Have a look at the flange itself, you will probably see quite a bit of pitting. Often I just replaced the old tin flange with a plastic one from a later engine that did not have all the pitting in it, and that solved the problem. Also, if there is any old gasket still on the flange, it will leak every time. You have to get it all off of the flange and the block. Sometimes it can look like metal, but it is actually just old gasket stuck on.

The head gaskets usually don't leak coolant. They leak oil, usually from the front where the main oil channel runs. That is where they tend to go. Did you have the stretch bolts or the regular head bolts? I have seen people use the torquing procedure for regular bolts on stretch bolts and it causes issues for them. Saw someone snap off a stretch bolt trying to re-use it.

RE: your timing issues: there is only one way to get the timing right, and that is to have the camshaft pulley fully loose. If it is not loose, the timing will be off. It is not possible to set the belt up with the cam pulley still tight on the cam. It must be loosened and must move freely while the crank and the pump pulleys are being set in the correct places.
_________________
1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
valvecovergasket
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1492
Location: pnw
valvecovergasket is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:

Is there a coolant flange on the back of a 1.6 TD head? I had thought there was only one flange, on the front of the head and then a bunch of sensor locations depending on the year?


its the same flange for the heater core plumbing as the fwd cars.
i guess its the front of the motor in the van - or would be the drivers side in the fwd install.
i gueesssss you could call it the "back" in the sense that its not the IP side, or "front" in the fwd cars, and its furthest away from you when youre standing at the rear of the van? confusion! haha

i recall it also has the sensor bung in it, but its been a few years...
_________________
MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

There are two coolant flanges on the head. One is above the flywheel. The other is in the center of the head between the #2 and #3 injectors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrissev2
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Toronto
chrissev2 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

valvecovergasket wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:

Is there a coolant flange on the back of a 1.6 TD head? I had thought there was only one flange, on the front of the head and then a bunch of sensor locations depending on the year?


its the same flange for the heater core plumbing as the fwd cars.
i guess its the front of the motor in the van - or would be the drivers side in the fwd install.
i gueesssss you could call it the "back" in the sense that its not the IP side, or "front" in the fwd cars, and its furthest away from you when youre standing at the rear of the van? confusion! haha

i recall it also has the sensor bung in it, but its been a few years...


That is correct, that is the coolant flange for the heater core. I had thought you meant the back of the head, where the manifolds are.

I have had a lot of problems with that flange in various VWs including water cooled Rabbits and Sciroccos. That one leaks a lot for some reason. Usually I found it to be very pitted. What I would do is just find a newer rabbit or golf in a scrap yard that had the plastic flange and just swap it out. The plastic ones seem to last longer than the old tin ones.
_________________
1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

None of the coolant flanges are tin. The metal ones are aluminum and tend to last considerably longer than the plastic ones which warp, leak, and sometimes fail catastrophically and dump all of your coolant. The aluminum ones become pitted if you don't change your coolant frequently enough but even if you never change your coolant, they last longer than the plastic ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
valvecovergasket
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1492
Location: pnw
valvecovergasket is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
None of the coolant flanges are tin. The metal ones are aluminum and tend to last considerably longer than the plastic ones which warp, leak, and sometimes fail catastrophically and dump all of your coolant.


indeed
an issue thats made even worse by gorilla mechanics that want to torque those two poor mounting bolts with the same heft as the lugs to try and help slow leaks.
ive seen the ears on those cracked from warping that led someone to over torque them.

(not on vans, but the same concept on all the 8v fwd installations)
_________________
MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
damagd
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
damagd is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Question about camshaft locking plate. Is it ok to make one? Found many threads where timing tools were substituted. Deep socket for Inj pump pin for example. I have used a piece of metal I had laying around that fit pretty well. Used a couple of pieces of thin cardboard to snug it up. Not sure that it keeps the camshaft slot Exactly parallel to the head though. Wondering how precise that procedure needs to be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 td CY-JX timing belt snapped. Questions/advice Syncro DOKA Reply with quote

Yes, you can use any flat piece of metal that fits closely. Use equal thicknesses of feeler gauges on each side to remove play (some of the manuals explicitly state that) instead of cardboard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.