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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Hi folks! Tore into the block of my engine as I was working on the tin just to see what I could see. The cam bearings were in troubling shape, those are on order. New rod bearings are ready to go in. Now Im just checking out the mains.
Long story short, I love learning about this stuff. Let me know what you think about the bearings, condition, age, manufacturer, anything! I have limited knowledge on this and may get things wrong but thats learning!
First things first, the cam. Two issues. One bearing is fully worn to copper, another’s surface broke off when I split the case apart. Ah! Glad I went in to check.
The weirdest thing here, is that the opposite half of the copper bearing looks to be in perfect shape…
This one was not long for this world…
Next up, mains! They look okayish to me? Plastigauge says they are within wear… Im not sure what everyones thoughts here are on reusing main bearings but Ill need to do more research.
For some reason I think I saw somewhere that these were “Good” oldstock bearings by the symbols, I could be wrong.
Checking both main (the one I could do) and rods with plastigauge got me directly on the “A-OKAY” range via the manual. Does this mean the mains are good or a must replace regardless?
What are your thoughts? Thanks! |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1884
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 3:59 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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You are already in there.
If you can find main bearings, install new ones. Make sure you get the right ones, crank size, case size and thrust. If you fell yours are "good" just get the same ones.
The one behind the gear is a bit of a challenge, but if you have the tool, very easy to pull the gear. When its time to install the gear heat it up, and it will slip right back on, but be quick. |
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1867
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 8:10 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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fun times. here are shots of my cam bearings (83.5 wbx). they looked much the same as yours.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7136712#7136712
cam bearing mugshots. the state of the middle ones alarmed me at first - but then i remembered reading about 'chrome flakes' and it being somewhat typical.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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I wouldn't reuse any of these bearings, but that's me.
The copper looking one is looking all copper as far as wear, maybe it always was this color? or they reused that half at a previous rebuild time?
KS is Kolbenschmidt. (VW)
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6593
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Those are Genuine OEM VW bearings. You can't get any better than that.
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Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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I am replacing the Cam bearings no matter what, super easy to get to and cheap.
They Mains I was curious about re-using for the exact reason @heimlich mentioned. They seem to be these "KS" (didnt know that meant oem!) bearings are the top tier and even @Clatter reused them in his Cheap Junk Build here https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=145853&...p;start=30
So my thoughts are, are OEMs the best and keep them? Or they are old so replace them? Seem to measure out from what I can tell... Might clean them up and run 'em....
@atomatom You're thread was a good read, although it does make me feel a bit better about my engine haha! Mine started out quite clean... I have a feeling someone went through it sometime in the past years and then it just sat...
Interesting that your cam bearings had the same failure...
So my friends, what do you think? Replace the old Cam Bearings and run the old Mains? I am an idiot for considering it? Would love to know your thoughts. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Deal. I just bought the puller to get the cam gear off. Ill pull that and check out the rest of the bearings before I make any decisions.
I cant even find a good online shop that has both Cam bearings and STD Mains in stock on the same site, or the mains are incredibly expensive and off brand anyway...
I'll order the cam bearings, pull the mains, clean 'em up while I wait and check back in.
Thanks Dave! |
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1867
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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i'm glad i documented my work, even if i'm not proud of some of it. more than once i find the google search result links to something i forgot i wrote. or i wonder, hmm, did i change the cam bearings (yes, i did, because it was open). anyway, hope my failures can help avoid yours.
i don't think my cam bearings were in a state that would have warranted tearing the engine apart. the busted main bearing though, eesh. that was causing a ton of other problems, cylinders shifted and got a nasty compression leak (seal at top of piston). compression was crap too, so new piston rings. once you're in the rabbit hole, might as well see how deep it goes (actually, don't, get it back together for camping season). 8 years on, i still have good oil pressure and i suspect good compression - haven't tested that recently. i replaced all the bearings with the exception of the small ends of the rods (in hindsight, rebuild rods would have been smart)
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Haha @atomatom ! I also find my own forums while googling things once in a while. Half the time I'll read a few posts and think, "wow I had the same issues as this guy" before realizing it's me. Heh!
Good to hear your engine is doing dandy. I broke a stud in the head, now I have new heads, bigger cylinders, pistons, exhaust, heater boxes, painted tin, and am in the center of the engine. I know how that rabbit hole can suck you in.... |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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If bearing clearances are within spec for new parts and the bearings do not have any obvious defects, it is not best practice to replace them 'while you're in there'. It is best practice to reuse them. Replacing them just requires the crank and bearings to wear into each other all over again causing unnecessary wear on the crank.
IMO, the pictured cam bearings should be replaced. The pics on the crank bearings are less definitive. Are those clean? |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
If bearing clearances are within spec for new parts and the bearings do not have any obvious defects, it is not best practice to replace them 'while you're in there'. It is best practice to reuse them. Replacing them just requires the crank and bearings to wear into each other all over again causing unnecessary wear on the crank.
IMO, the pictured cam bearings should be replaced. The pics on the crank bearings are less definitive. Are those clean? |
We obviously had different teachers for "best" practice.
Mine in the early 1970's were MBNA (Mercedes Benz of North America) trained.
Dave |
It would be fun to discuss with your teachers regarding their rationale for what they taught you. If their rationale was more sensible than what I already stated, then I'd be happy to change my mind on the subject. Given that they aren't here, and you haven't given any reason, I am unmoved by your 'appeal to authority'. |
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djkeev
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 3:41 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Best practice is a function of intended use not some biblical tablet written by someone.
For a camper used only, 5k per year, 5 year picture… re use those bearings.
If you want 5 years at 25k per year, get some new ones and your micrometer set out
Both approaches are “ sound practice” … maybe that can avoid the p**ing match ?
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1867
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 4:20 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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100% abscate. and your ass is in the van, so, you have to make the call that is right for you.
you have to do the best you can with what is available to you. some bearings are hard to find and some parts are poor quality. i think vanogism (sure, that is a word) promotes hoarding because you never know if you'll need that part again. i have a complete engine that i'm slowly picking away at, plus another box or two of engine bits.
some things were a poor design - my main thrust bearing - and probably yours from the look of it, are prone to cracking. maybe you'll be fine, maybe not. if you can source the right set you probably want to do that given the investment in new heads/etc.
and i'm sure you already know, it doesn't matter how much money you sink into it, you're still driving a 40+ year old vehicle that is famous for breaking down, but one you can sleep in and cook dinner while you wait for a tow truck. i got towed only once (unlimited towing, awesome, but they tow you to a shit garage) and after that (perhaps a dozen times) always fixed it myself on the road. this is the way.
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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Good points all around folks.
I ordered new Cam and Mains. Finally found a shop that had both in stock (Jbugs, even though last time they never shipped an order... something about stocking being weird).
Figured I will install new ones, and keep those old ones in my toolkit on the road.
Got a bunch of other gaskets and stuff too. I think thats everything I need for the van as of now... Time to clean it up and start assembling.
Cheers! |
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Claydogh
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2020
Posts: 81
Location: NY
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:02 am Post subject: Re: What do my bearings say about my engine? 1981 Aircooled |
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Sat down and got to thinking about getting those gears off. Some good heat and a 20$ Harbor Freight puller was the plan, however I have heard some horror stories about destroying that brass gear. So I got to thinking and built a little adapter!
Popped right off! Gear is in perfect shape. Now my adapter/puller combo is going in my kit.
Got to polishing the crank with some high grit sandpaper and shoelace method, can already see the difference.
And now I am officially all disassembled and cleaned up. Crank feels to be in perfect condition even with the fingernail test. Some measurements this week but just waiting on the bearings.
Very excited! |
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