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Stalling when HOT- ideas?
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:52 am    Post subject: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

Yesterday, at the tail end of a camping trip, van stalled when HOT. 2 plus hours on the highway, 95 degrees outside, A/C on, happened when slowed down going through a town. Rolled to a safe area. Started back up after 10 minutes. Stalled on way to nearest parking lot. Started back up after 10 minutes. Parked, went and had dinner (why we were in a town).

Drove 30 minutes of steep mountain grades towards campground. Stalled again when slowed to turn into a store. Started after just a minute or two. Stalled again. Waited 15-20 minutes- made it to campsite.

Pulled the plug on the last day of camping and drove home this morning while cool, no problems, including some hard grades- over Sam's Gap from TN into NC on I-26.

Stalling behavior is like a light switch- keeps running but falls on its face quickly until stall (RPMs dropping). Will crank and try to run but won't. No obvious issues- everything is attached. One time when trying to start after 5 or so minutes, it started but had an audible misfire in the exhaust note. Let it cool off more, started, no misfire.

Did not have VCDS with me, will next time.

Ignition coil was replaced about 1000 miles ago when similar thing happened and issue had not come back.

Realized while typing this I could have checked for spark off the coil during no-start and that might have told me a lot, oops.

VCDS did not show any held codes after the first stall event when ignition coil was replaced.

Fuel pump was replaced about 5000 miles ago by PO.

Catalytic Converter is rattling internally and needs replacement, although I don't think that's related.

Thought about it later and never heard the high-speed radiator fan when I think I was seeing engine temps where it would have ran- probably un-related, but will test.

To me, the "like a light switch" part says an electrical part is getting too hot and the misfire points back to the coil or another part of the ignition system.

I'm taking a break before diving in to testing, diagnostics tomorrow- posting today to see if anyone sees a "smoking gun" in that whole description.

Thanks, sorry for long post. I'll post a trip report on the good parts soon!!
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled Sad https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
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KillerGriller
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

If the fan was failing, could it be a safety measure causing the van to go into LIMP mode (or something similar) to avoid overheating?
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wannabecamper
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

I had a similar if not the same issue. It happened when it was hot like on and off switch as you have described. Fortunately I was able to drive it home by keeping it below 65 MPH. In my case, the distributor magnetic pickup replacement and the coil replacement resolved the issue. It could have been either, but I am thinking the distributor magnetic pickup. Good luck.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

Confirm it’s in the ignition leg next time it stalls. I would also check fuel pressure and current draw on fuel pump to rule out the fuel leg, too.
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BatesEV
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

I would throw 3 common fail points at it. Plus they aren’t that expensive. The ECU relay can kill the engine, the Fuel pump relay can as well, and last the ignition switch. You should be able to get all 3 for under 50 dollars
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

BatesEV wrote:
I would throw 3 common fail points at it. Plus they aren’t that expensive. The ECU relay can kill the engine, the Fuel pump relay can as well, and last the ignition switch. You should be able to get all 3 for under 50 dollars


Ill fire the parts cannon for $50 - I cost my time at $25 an hour, so not worth spending too much time unless Im learning something new.
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

Thanks all!

Yeah, I can replace those parts easy and cheap and good idea anyway probably- but I don't know why they'd cause a heat-related issue.

Abs, I moved my tool kit out from where it was buried to right behind the driver's seat. If this happens again, I'll be able to attack it with a multimeter etc much easier- and I'm bringing my laptop for VCDS despite the many stupid ethical/Luddite reasons I hate to bring extra tech with me while setting out on an adventure.

I need to accept that I have to do the whole radiator shift to fully check spark- annoying, I'm going to admit that.

Anyway, the plan is to run VCDS, see if there's anything new, and then run through all the checks in the Bentley for fuel injection and ignition. Next camping trip is in two weeks, so I've got some time.

I am also seriously considering modding the area around the coil for better air flow and/or making a heat sink for it. I've made my own heat sinks on homemade mtb led lights with good results.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled Sad https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual
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BatesEV
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

That’s a good idea. I keep a whole parts store in my van along with tools. So when I change a part I keep the old as a back up and tools to change it.

I had a trip to Vegas and drove perfectly the whole way there. Parked it for a few hours. Headed out go camping and within 5 mins of driving the van lost engine power. Turns out my newer coil failed. Swapped in my OEM one and continued. Took the defective one apart and found that the power from the module to the coil had separated. BTW very difficult to take apart. Haha

I used some heat sink paste when I put the new in on. Beru was one I found actually German made. NGK was China, OEM Mexico and HJCO India.
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

Resistance between 1 and 15 on coil just above spec (.8 ohms) cold. Since resistance increases when hot AFAIK, this looks pretty suspect to me. Replacing for sure, I'll look into that heat sink paste.

Lots of other trouble shooting, everything on VCDS is in spec on all measuring blocks I know how to use. I went ahead and made my grounds shiny since that can't hurt and am waiting on parts now.

Also figured out I had a leak at the transmission dipstick o ring, annoying.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled Sad https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual
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gkid
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Stalling when HOT- ideas? Reply with quote

Same thing happened to us on a trip a few years ago, would stall hot then restart once the van cooled down, found a van a guy was parting out and bought a distributor and coil, installed both because I was not sure which one was the the problem, after that there were no more break downs and its been a few years since the parts were replaced. 1994 Eurovan 2.5L 5 speed
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