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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22665
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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I’m back in the marina in about 4 hours.
I’ll photo a picture of fuel tank chafe before noon. Marine tanks are a lot thicker than the cheap crappy jugs you get at Walmart from the low bidder.
Here you go
Customer complained of fuel smell in cabin. Tank corner had rubbed against fiberglass wall in tank locker
I refused job as licker was not sealed to AYBC specs, s had no vapor drain, no mounts and tie downs, and customer was d***
I wrote him a memo documenting his yacht was manifestly unsafe and my insurance company which will cc his. I hope he only hurts himself if he continues to boat with this.
Last edited by Abscate on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AndyBees
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2331
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| kublerwagen wrote: |
| For those stashing fuel underneath how often do you check it and replace it? I have pondered such an arrangement but would want to use it up fairly often. |
Similar thoughts here too.
If I did a set-up for extra fuel storage, I'd considering using a pump transfer. Of course, such a set-up would require some fairly sophisticated plumbing, pump(s), venting and a means to determine the level in the auxiliary tank. It could be set-up for simultaneous usage or merely as emergency use only, or both with valves.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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If you really want to be prepared repeat furrylittleotter's 40 gallon fuel tank (sadly the pics are MIA). He could be an odd duck on occasion but his van had some of the best mods ever.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| That’s a soft polyethylene based tank highly susceptible to chafe damage. Careful where you put that and how it mounts. |
And metal cans are subject to rust and can burst a seam if crushed... |
Which is why my metal can is only in service for the few weeks/maybe a month each
year we're on a real roadtrip. Emptied, dried, a touch of fogging oil sprayed inside &
stored dry in the garage the other 11 months keeps it ready for next time. I'm VERY
comfortable with this setup & the minimal maintenance required.
Certainly any type of can could burst a seam &/or be crushed...do your diligence, inspect
regularly and don't be shy about replacing anything that looks suspicious or possibly
nearing the end of it's service life. With just $35 invested, I won't think twice about
ditching this can when the time comes. Spend your money where/how you want.
I took the subject of this thread to be short-term gas transport in certain situations.
All-day every day full time is a somewhat different matter. Either way, Discuss... 
- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9609
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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Wildthings you may be thinking of the [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rokon_(motorcycle_manufacturer)]Rokon 2wd motorcycle[/url]. They are archaic yet still being built/sold today. I recall that the tires could be used to carry water, I’ve never heard fuel. That archaic 2wd doesn’t look like it goes real far, it would be quite a chore to use up the existing tank. I would think that gasoline would attack tire rubber and destroy it quickly. Also wouldn’t Fuel-in-tires be well-tested and popular with (the classical) overlanders?
| kublerwagen wrote: |
| For those stashing fuel underneath how often do you check it and replace it? I have pondered such an arrangement but would want to use it up fairly often. |
I have not started my process yet.
I intend to replace the gas once a year whether I run out or not. 1 year is no problem for ethanol. My snowmobiles sit for a year and start readily. I think you just have to be careful to avoid mixing ethanol (which can suspend water) and “pure gas” which lets the water drop to the bottom. I’d just keep it 100% ethanol and it will be fine.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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alaskadan
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Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Rokons seem like they would be fun for a little while. The extra tanks are the wheels no fuel or water touches the inside of the tires. Essentially aluminum drums with an axle through the middle and a tire on it. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50347
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| Wildthings you may be thinking of the [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rokon_(motorcycle_manufacturer)]Rokon 2wd motorcycle[/url]. They are archaic yet still being built/sold today. |
Yes I think this is what the guy was talking about. Our county apparently has one for use on its extensive trail system. Because of its awkward behavior only two or three people are ever are ever allowed to use it. I don't think they have a super good reputation for safety.
https://www.facebook.com/Rokon2x2/photos/a.650669291643477/1848389485204779/?type=3&theater
From the Rokon website "Hollow drum wheels can provide floatation or space for up to 2.5 gallons of extra fuel or water"
. |
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2108
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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Think of a pothole I missed seeing while out last night at oh-dark-thirty. Thinking of the bang from hitting it, the notion of doing that with any manner of flammable fluid in my tires... high, very high pucker factor. 
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50347
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| RBEmerson wrote: |
| Think of a pothole I missed seeing while out last night at oh-dark-thirty. Thinking of the bang from hitting it, the notion of doing that with any manner of flammable fluid in my tires... high, very high pucker factor. |
Yes but if one is a day's ride away from a road in the desert having one tire filled with gasoline and another filled with water could be the difference between survival and death. |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10250
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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What about this stuff?
http://www.mymagictank.com/shop/
Seems like its pricey at apx $40/gallon but also seems to solve a lot of the concerns that have come up on this thread. No need to buy a container, mount a container, or fabricate a tank and a few could be kept lashed between the frame rails, or up on the roof.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2108
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| RBEmerson wrote: |
| Think of a pothole I missed seeing while out last night at oh-dark-thirty. Thinking of the bang from hitting it, the notion of doing that with any manner of flammable fluid in my tires... high, very high pucker factor. |
Yes but if one is a day's ride away from a road in the desert having one tire filled with gasoline and another filled with water could be the difference between survival and death. |
Well, it can be argued a popped rim could end in the difference between survival and not. Water isn't good for gas/petroleum fires. 
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22665
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Quote: |
| I intend to replace the gas once a year whether I run out or not. Wink 1 year is no problem for ethanol. My snowmobiles sit for a year and start readily. I think you just have to be careful to avoid mixing ethanol (which can suspend water) and “pure gas” which lets the water drop to the bottom. I’d just keep it 100% ethanol and it will be fine. |
Im confused
You can't run pure ethanol in any car in this Forum, and mixing ethanol gas and pure gas will give you 5% ethanol gas, roughly.
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Steve M. wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Just heard of a rig where extra gasoline is stored in the tires, about 2 gallons can be stored in each of its two tires. Kind of a grownups minibike but with power to both wheels. Apparently quite the thrill when you alternate between braking and throttle on a down hill. |
Somehow me thinks it's going to be a pita getting out and into the fuel tank! 😧 |
From what the guy told me it sounds like a whole lot about this rig was a PITA, seems it was originally designed back in the forties or fifties and hasn't seen much upgrading since. Says it is extremely useful though as it will carry a goodly load at 20 mph into areas where only hikers and pack animals can otherwise go. |
Is it a Rokon?
https://www.rokon.com/bikes/trail-breaker
EDIT/// It is a rokon, I've seen a few around here, but I've never seen them out in the mountains/on trails...
| Abscate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I intend to replace the gas once a year whether I run out or not. Wink 1 year is no problem for ethanol. My snowmobiles sit for a year and start readily. I think you just have to be careful to avoid mixing ethanol (which can suspend water) and “pure gas” which lets the water drop to the bottom. I’d just keep it 100% ethanol and it will be fine. |
Im confused
You can't run pure ethanol in any car in this Forum, and mixing ethanol gas and pure gas will give you 5% ethanol gas, roughly. |
I think there was some typoing in there.
I'd happily leave "pure gas" in a can for a year, even 2, but I would not do the same with %10 ethanol fuel. I can get non ethanol premium gas a mile from my house, but I know a lot of people can't :-/
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4789
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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while all y'all worry about gas cans, i carry a few of these in the glove box. just add water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pill
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50347
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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Water weights more than gasoline and at times is far more precious. Even if the pills work one might well have no net gain. 
Maybe try The Pill with some HHO gas and get double your gas mileage while you are at it. |
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indianpeaksjoe
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2017
Posts: 332
Location: Moab, UT
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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Zombie thread revival, I was looking for ways to store gas on my soon to be mine Vanagon... but I also owned a Rokon. You don't gas in the tires, but the wheels. Although they usually talk about carrying water in it. It was super fun.
Pics of a rokon on the trails:
https://www.instagram.com/p/COd-jSyhN0u/
https://www.instagram.com/p/COd-Kpchnsz/ |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50347
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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What is the difference between putting gas in the tires and the wheels?
Wonder if they have a Darien model? Might be fun and get a gang together and do a Terra de Fuego to the North Slope trip on Rokons. |
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vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3097
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| What is the difference between putting gas in the tires and the wheels? |
mechanically - loss of suspension of aired tires, fuel leak with a flat
chemically - rubber/fuel incompatibility
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Last edited by vanis13 on Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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indianpeaksjoe
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Joined: July 27, 2017
Posts: 332
Location: Moab, UT
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Spare gas for "in the middle of nowhere" driving |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
What is the difference between putting gas in the tires and the wheels?
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My guess would be that since you run the tires with super low pressure like 0-4 PSI in sand and snow there is a chance of burping the tire. Then there is the chance of a puncture.
Cheers,
-Joe |
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