When to Pull Throttle Shafts?

[Clatter]

Sorry to bug y'all if this has been covered..
Search didn't seem to have what I'm looking for here.

Been doing carbs for years,
But they've always been bushed - Solexes and the like.
Now, I have these Dells that I'm gonna have a go at.

They're pretty crusty:

Webers and Dells have these roller throttle shafts that always seemed so intimidating.
What with the butterfly screws staked in place it all seems foolish for a home builder to mess about.

Have an ultrasonic and some soda for my blaster,
Maybe i can get away with leaving the shafts and roller bearings in place?

Say i blast and buzz them clean as possible in-place,
If the rollers feel smooth and the butterflies close straight/true that's good enough, right?

Or do you always replace the shaft roller bearings once you're in there?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[KEGZ]

berryman chem-dip.. and then reassess

[madmike]

Ultrasonic them first and check'em
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[nsracing]

If the bores are eaten, you may have to re-bore and cut new plates. I made a lot of plates for overbored IDAs and IDFs back in the day.

I am gonna give up machining for a little while. Need a break -

[esde]

If the bearings are smooth, and you've never done them before I'd try to leave them. But submerging them in an ultrasonic might kill the bearings. If you're very steady you can use a dental pic to pry the bearing side covers off and repack the bearings, if they end up needing it.
Getting the plates and shafts out is tricky, and more so getting everything in, and the plates aligned so the tapers seat nicely against the bore. It's a delicate touch. New bearings are cheap online, if you end up completely breaking them down.
I have a set of 40's to put back together, I'll take some pics of the bearing/ shaft order of operations, if you'd like.
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[mcdragracer]

If you end up submerging the carbs in a sonic cleaner or Chem dip I would suggest removing the shaft and bearings, it's not to bad of a job to remove and install, Even though you might pivot the shaft and the Baron's feel good it could be a different story when you actually remove them they could definitely be a little stiff and Nothcy due to the grease Being aged for over 30 years.
And don't worry about the butterfly screws being staked, just red loc tight them back in, they come out pretty easy.

[Clatter]

Thanks for the insight gentlemen.

Always been super scared of those butterfly screws!

Their being staked seems crucial as ingesting one could be very bad for a motor…!
Then, how to stake them without bending the shaft or messing up the butterfly alignment?
Always thought you had to make a special mandrel/anvil that would reach up into the carb throat,
And would support the shaft so it didn’t get tweaked during staking.

If you can skip all that and locktite will hold long-term,
That makes pulling this stuff all seem way easier (possible).
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Paul.H]

You'll be fine with loctiting the screws

[mcdragracer]

Nothing to be scared of, I think It might be an old wives tale removing the shaft and bearings that's been passed down from generations to generations 😱😁

[AlteWagen]

use a dremel bit to grind away the staked bit of the screw before taking it out and a long screwdriver in a vice to hold the head of screw while you restake it.
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[b-man]

Or just send your carbs to mcdragracer and rest assured that someone who really sweats the details will be doing a first class professional job on therm.

Works for me.
_________________
1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle

[Chickensoup]

So much bologna.

Those carbs are dirty. Do it right. Completely disassemble. Use the correct flat head and the throttle shaft screws will be cake. Inspect shaft for pitting. Loktite is great. Use red. No need to peen the bottoms.

NO CHEM DIP. I won't give you my secret sauce recipe but vinegar, dish soap, and a dash of parts decreaser works fantastic. Immediately soak carb body and any other lead zinc alloy parts in pb blaster or wd40 or marvel.

I would suggest you vapor blast the body but I doubt you own a set up as most do not.

There is NO NEED to do anything but un screw the throttle shaft fasteners. I've removed idk about 200 of them and only once did It affect the threads.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Clatter]

Funny, this month's issue of HotVWs has an article on rebuilding Dells.
Some good info, like how to stop the Dell 'whistle'.
Also found this old book.
In both cases, they don't go there with pulling shafts.
An entire book written on Dells, and all they say about the bearings and shafts is "consult an expert".

Screws and shafts came right out with new/fresh name brand screwdrivers.
These i hide from everyone so they never get abused.

Big thanks for the confidence. Looks like i didn't break anything.
Bearings are crusty feeling so the hunt is on.



Forgot i even owned a can of carb dip!
Question - does that big brass piece of the enrichener come out?
Started prying on it but it didn't seem to want to move..

Same with this screw down in the well..
Does this unscrew, or is it staked in?

Thanks for sharing the wisdom gentlemen.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Chickensoup]

You really should remove those check valves. Even if they are not clogged, 95% of the carbs I've restored have a calcium like build up that prevents proper sealing where the ball sits.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[mcdragracer]

[Clatter]

Excellent.. Much appreciated.

Spent the day going through the steps to clean these up.

First carb dip, rinse with water, then blown out with compressed air then into the sun to dry.
After more compressed air, they got soda blasted, more air, then a few hours in the ultrasonic.
Tons of carb cleaner and compressed air thru the passages...
Still, i was careful not to blast directly with high-pressure air,
Because i heard this can cause 'Dellorto Drip".
Anybody know which passages to watch out for?
Remember seeing a thread but couldn't seem to find it.

Bigger passages got a gun brush thru them,
And the fasteners and small bits got wire-wheeled.


CB had roller bearings and kits which i have on the way,
But,
Yeah,
Most parts are NLA.
A couple things might be nice to have,
But i -need- one of those little check balls.
Anybody know where to get parts for Dells?
Maybe now that Empi is copying them they sell parts?


Happy to see clean bores near the butterflies!
No ridge or damage at all.

Soda blasting and ultrasonic don't remove stains but it's better than it was.

All of the lead plugs were smeared over with sealant.
It's kind of rubbery, and the cleaning has taken most of them loose.
Is this factory or added by a PO?
Should i clean it off and re-apply something? If so, what?

Only cleaned up one of them, so i can use the other to be sure it goes back like it was.
(wrong by the PO ! )
Started things in lightly and wait until the rollers and kits come.

Something else:
These came off a blow-thru turbo motor.
It had mod rings, and rubber top gaskets, but not turbo e-tubes.
Are these shaft seals factory?
Or are these added to keep fuel from leaking under boost?

Lastly,
was going to install these on a 1776 or 1914 regular N/A motor.
Does this look ballpark?
Vents 34
Aux vents 2
Mains 140
Airs 180
Emulsions 2
Idles 55
Pump 80

Weber jets won't work here, will they?


Thanks again for the wisdom.
My first set of Dells!


Think I'll be able to get them right,
Or will they get sent in to someone?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Chickensoup]

Yes, the sealant is factory. The throttle shaft seals probably are as well. Even empi uses them.

You lost the check ball? Otherwise you shouldn't need one. If you don't see one, or if you think on is magically missing, it's not. It's in the passage sticking. Use thin wire to loosen them.

And for goodness sake, oil that thing before it oxidizes.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[mcdragracer]

[mcdragracer]

Just finished installing shaft and bearings in a customers set of 36 Dells

[Clatter]