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Ninian88 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022 Posts: 4 Location: B.C.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:49 pm Post subject: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start (SOLVED) |
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Hi everyone,
My first post. I have ben following this forum for a few years now and have found it to be a great resource, so thanks for everyone's input.
I have a 1988 Vanagon 2.1 WBX that has fuel delivery, spark and cranks, but won't start (sort of). My failure/breakdown was sudden. It was running perfectly, but after I stopped for gas and it wouldn't start. Nothing.
I swapped ECUs with a recent rebuilt one and still no start. I went through the Bentley and Digifant manuals and checked almost all I could for the fuel injection and ignition. Everything checked out to spec, spark, good fuel injector spray, but still no start.
My timing was recently set to 35deg advance at 3000 rpm, so timing was my last test. I cranked the engine while rotating the distributor to see if it would start, and amazingly it did. However, it's advanced by about 50 to 60deg to do so. While running, I moved it back to 35deg and it ran fine. It wouldn't start again at the confirmed 35deg advance. Tried again rotating the distributor and started with about 50 to 60deg again.
Could I have a distributor drive problem? Any input is greatly appreciated.
Steven
Last edited by Ninian88 on Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1826 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Hi
How are the compression numbers? _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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0to60in6min Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006 Posts: 3414 Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Do you have a spare ignition switch to try? |
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Ninian88 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022 Posts: 4 Location: B.C.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Thanks for the replies.
VicVan - It had a warm compression test in the spring that was about 130 to 145 across all cylinders. I tested cold (as is wouldn't run) at 110 to 140. What's acceptable compression? I can try again warm with the super-advanced timing.
I'm also in Victoria, so I'm sure we have seen each other out there. I've followed your FAS engine conversion as well on the Samba. Enticing option. We should meet up sometime to have a van chat.
0to60 - I have a new ignition switch spare that I tried. It didn't make any difference. I've had that problem before, this one seems different.
Thanks again for the responses. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:40 am Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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If your timing was advance by 50-60° I would not think it would crank normally. When you initially reset the timing how much did you change it? How long ago did you reset the timing?
Any spitting and sputtering or backfires?
Pull the cap and inspect the cap and rotor well
Maybe read Tencentlife's post on how to set the timing.
A nearly totally blocked exhaust can make it where an engine needs a huge amount of timing to run. |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4715 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:11 am Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Ninian88 wrote: |
My failure/breakdown was sudden. It was running perfectly, but after I stopped for gas and it wouldn't start. Nothing. |
how soon after stopping at the gas pump did this occur? right at the pump or minutes/feet etc after pulling away from the pump? _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1826 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:41 am Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Ninian88 wrote: |
VicVan - It had a warm compression test in the spring that was about 130 to 145 across all cylinders. I tested cold (as is wouldn't run) at 110 to 140. What's acceptable compression? I can try again warm with the super-advanced timing.
I'm also in Victoria, so I'm sure we have seen each other out there. I've followed your FAS engine conversion as well on the Samba. Enticing option. We should meet up sometime to have a van chat.
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Compression is independent from timing. And now I need a picture of your van!
How old is the gas? _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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Ninian88 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022 Posts: 4 Location: B.C.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Solved - 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Solved - It was the red wire on the idle control unit that had backed out of the connecter.
VicVan - This is my van
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Solved - 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Holy Cow - I never would have found that. Nice work. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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do.dah Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 427 Location: Washington
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start (SOLVED) |
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THAT"S A THING?!?! Great examples of; "Leave no stone unturned", and "KISS".
Hope I learn something from this.... |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1826 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start (SOLVED) |
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Nice catch! And nice van.. I'll keep an eye out! _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2039 Location: Plano, TX USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Solved - 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start |
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Ninian88 wrote: |
Solved - It was the red wire on the idle control unit that had backed out of the connecter. |
That's weird because that is the 12v wire to the idle control unit coming from the 2 relay box (fuel pump relay) on the left side of the engine and your van can run even without the idle control unit.
I would think that you had a bad connection on the relay but you did say you had fuel delivery. I can't think of why your van would not run with this wire disconnected but now I need to test on mine.
There really isn't any reason for the van not to start with that wire being disconnected. |
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Ninian88 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022 Posts: 4 Location: B.C.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start (SOLVED) |
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I agree with you zoti. That's how I found the problem (I hope).
I unplugged the unit and it started. Plugged it back in and no start. So I tried two known good ICUs and no start. Saw the loose connector and pushed it in tight and it started. Maybe it was powering intermittently with a close connection confusing something? With my luck it won't start tomorrow. Maybe I'm bumping some other bad wire? I guess I'll find out. |
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zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2039 Location: Plano, TX USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1988 Van, cranks, fuel, spark - no start (SOLVED) |
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Ninian88 wrote: |
I agree with you zoti. That's how I found the problem (I hope).
I unplugged the unit and it started. Plugged it back in and no start. So I tried two known good ICUs and no start. Saw the loose connector and pushed it in tight and it started. Maybe it was powering intermittently with a close connection confusing something? With my luck it won't start tomorrow. Maybe I'm bumping some other bad wire? I guess I'll find out. |
There's not much to bump as the ICU has its own wire harness going to it. Maybe it's creating some sort of a short. I would really try to diagnose it. |
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