Weird clutch issue, ideas?

[oprn]

Back ground: type 4 engine, type 1 transaxle, replaced throughout bearing, cross shaft, installed new tube on the input shaft all to make proper parts match for late pressure plate/throughout bearing combo. Same clutch and pressure plate all in good condition.

On start up the gears could not be engaged with the engine running. Engine off all gears normal. Started engine with transmission in gear, feels like the clutch is hanging up, car wants to creep a bit. Re-checked clutch cable adjustment, all good.

Took the car for a drive and all seemed OK so I thought... maybe a bit of rust on the input shaft spline from sitting? I did very lightly lube it though as is my habit.

Now several hundred miles later, the issue keeps cropping up randomly, without warning. Stop at a stop light and have to shut the engine off to get it in 1st gear. Then all is good again. Last evening it got worse, it was hard to shift in all gears on the road for about the last hour of the trip. Pulled up in front of the garage and shut it off, unload the car and start it up again to put it in to investigate the problem, all normal again! No problem to investigate!

What the heck??!! Previous throw out bearing had exploded, did I miss some bits lodged in the pressure plate?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[clonebug]

Maybe some of the diaphram arms or springs if that style are weaker than others and cause the throwout arm to push at an angle. That might explain why the throwout bearing exploded.....????
Replace the PP and disc. They aren't that expensive.

For you it probably isn't too tough to pull the engine but for me it's about a 6 hour job each way.
I like to make sure I won't have to pull it apart in the middle of the driving season.
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[oprn]

It exploded because I had the wrong combination of parts, old throw out bearing running on a newer ring less pressure plate. Ran that way for 2 years but shouldn't have lasted a trip around the block. Now all the parts are correct.

I hear you about not wanting to have issues on the road. The way my exhaust system is interwoven with the engine cage makes it an all day job to pull the engine unfortunately... my own fault really for wanting something out of the norm.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

I just took the Buggy for another spin up the road and back. Wrung it out a bit, a couple hard runs up to 5K and 70 mph with some stick slapping and the clutch and transmission are working perfectly again! I cannot see how it needs a new pressure plate and disc. They are either broken or they are not. They don't fix themselves.

I have made a decision, the trip to the north country in the Buggy is off, we will take the Jetta instead. It gets double the fuel mileage anyway. The Buggy is relegated to close to home jaunts (2 or 3 hours one way) for now. I refuse to take it apart again without doing the IRS conversion and the 944 rear discs. I don't have time to do that and make the north trip right now.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[raygreenwood]

[oprn]

Thanks Ray but - it was all working fine for 3 years before the throw out bearing failed and most of the time is working fine again now. Just once in a while it does this... randomly! None of the items you touched on can change randomly. As for the peddle stops, they are missing so the peddle travels a bit too far right now both ways. I need to make some and install them but it has been that way from the beginning.

Right at the moment it is all working perfectly again having done nothing to correct it. I am leaning toward either the pilot shaft bearing in the flywheel trying to seize or a random bit of something floating around in the pressure plate/clutch disc area and getting lodged somewhere now and then. There is nothing else I can think of that would change so randomly.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[raygreenwood]

[oprn]

Hmmm... now there is a possibility. Type 1 swing axle, solid mount on the bell housing, stock mount on the nose cone, no mounts on the engine. I will check all mounts for bolt tightness.

Thanks Ray!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

Hmmm... now there is a possibility. Type 1 swing axle, solid mount on the bell housing, stock mount on the nose cone, no mounts on the engine. I will check all mounts for bolt tightness.

Thanks Ray!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[jbbugs]

Any chance the clutch cable tube in the tunnel might have a broken weld?
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[oprn]

I suppose there is. Would I hear some sort of noise operating the clutch with the engine off to indicate that? How else would one diagnose that?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[madmike]

Pull the shifter and u can see if the cable 'housing' moves about?
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[oprn]

I was wondering if that would work! Also thinking of having the Missus work the clutch and see if there is any visual inconsistency in the action at the bell housing end.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

We went for a 3 hour drive this evening and it happened twice again. I think I had an "AH - ha!" moment and now know what is happening.

Bed time now so I will do the fix in the morning and see if I'm right!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[dunk]

[oprn]

Well, the engine/transaxle mounting bolts are all good, I don't see or hear any evidence of the cable tube being loose, however - The clutch peddle has always been a bit funky. By that I mean it has never lined up with the brake peddle. Here is a picture.

I have intended to adjust the clutch peddle stop to even the peddle up but the bolt was frozen with rust. So I always have adjusted the clutch so that it contacts the pressure plate right about where it should if the peddles were lined up properly. This leaves about 2" of free play.

I'm thinking what is happening is the cable is going slack and dropping down lower out of the hook inside the tunnel and when I step on the clutch the next time the adjustments are all out of whack because the cable is now pulling from lower on the hook lever. The confirmation in my mind was that last trip out, both times that the problem happened I gave the clutch peddle 3 quick short taps and instantly all was normal again. The cable end is popping back up into place.

So, today, WD40 and a rattle gun got the bolt out. Cleaned it up and lubed it, put it back in place and... turns out the adjustment effects both the clutch AND the brake peddle at the same time! I can now get the clutch peddle to stand up where it should with a 1/2' of free play but I have lost 1/2 of my brake peddle travel. And the peddles don't line up any different than they did before!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Jason37]

Might be time to find another pedal assembly to try out.

[66brm]

Next time you pull the engine put a small amount of anti seize on the splines of the input shaft where the disc rides. At work we see this quite a bit on trucks with twin disc clutches, one of the discs grips onto the shaft and launches the truck forward/drags on either the flywheel or floating plate or pressure plate. Anti seize on the shaft cures it every time, damn Nissan(UD)....
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[oprn]

[modok]

It could be any part of the clutch system. Perhaps the side play of the fork?
I'm sure you can examine the whole cable system and see any problem just not very comfortable to access.
But it, just maybe, is a problem with the trans. If the mainshaft has too much end play that can cause shifting problems or drag that comes and goes.
If all else fails check that and if it seems to have too muchplay , if so, take the nosecone off and see if the top bearing is wearing into the nosecone.