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GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| Keith Tanner wrote: |
| I've asked my machinist for costs if we do 5 sets or 10 sets of the vented rotor style. He can't give a solid quote for the non-vented brackets until I get the design done, but he can get pretty close as the bracket will be very similar. Let's see if this can be done at a reasonable cost. |
Awesome, depending on the price, I'm certainly interested. |
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2754
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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I wonder how this compares to the BMW 7series caliper and Mercedes 300TD rotor set up I have on my '84. I love that I can bolt on stock steel wheels. Every time somebody around here upgrades to GoWesty wheels I pick up a new set of tires and wheels for my work van.
Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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space
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| hdenter wrote: |
I wonder how this compares to the BMW 7series caliper and Mercedes 300TD rotor set up I have on my '84. I love that I can bolt on stock steel wheels. Every time somebody around here upgrades to GoWesty wheels I pick up a new set of tires and wheels for my work van.
Hans |
Hans,
Do you have a write up on this?
T
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82 westy
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2754
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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Not my own. If you do a search with key words you should find the thread on how to do it. Someone might have it book marked and post it here for you. It's fairly simple, cut stock early rotor down to a hub, drill holes/tap hub to mount Mercedes rotor. Slightly mod mounting holes on spindle to attach BMW calipers. Buy or make short hard line to attach hydraulics. It's a little nerve racking to remove metal from the hub to mount the rotor, but after 50k curb bashing pot hole miles with 2000# of tools and materials, I've had no problems. The rotors are well vented and I have not had one warp since I did the swap.
Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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from this thread
more pics in the thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/viewtopic.php?p=8730466#8730466
| danfromsyr wrote: |
I am running this set up and it works very well, just having ventillated rotors is the real necessity IMO.
but it does require some machining and if you are able to do that yourself great.
but if you have to explain it to a machinist about the parts & process you found on the internet then it may not go so cheaply.
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Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
from this thread
more pics in the thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/viewtopic.php?p=8730466#8730466
| danfromsyr wrote: |
I am running this set up and it works very well, just having ventillated rotors is the real necessity IMO.
but it does require some machining and if you are able to do that yourself great.
but if you have to explain it to a machinist about the parts & process you found on the internet then it may not go so cheaply.
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Thanks Dan
Bookmarked!
T
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Keith Tanner
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| hdenter wrote: |
Not my own. If you do a search with key words you should find the thread on how to do it. Someone might have it book marked and post it here for you. It's fairly simple, cut stock early rotor down to a hub, drill holes/tap hub to mount Mercedes rotor. Slightly mod mounting holes on spindle to attach BMW calipers. Buy or make short hard line to attach hydraulics. It's a little nerve racking to remove metal from the hub to mount the rotor, but after 50k curb bashing pot hole miles with 2000# of tools and materials, I've had no problems. The rotors are well vented and I have not had one warp since I did the swap.
Hans |
Interesting, thanks for sharing that. It's still got the problem of sourcing parts for an obsolete OE brake setup instead of generic racing parts, but it's definitely a better setup than most implementations and easier to engineer than my setup was.
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Last edited by Keith Tanner on Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Keith Tanner
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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Did some measuring on the stock brake caliper last night. Looks like my 11.75" vented setup has the same radial clearance (to the barrel of the wheel) as stock, and as mentioned earlier the caliper face is 10mm further in. So it will fit any wheels that fit over stock brakes. I've only got the one set so that's not critical to me, but FYI 
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6357
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| Keith Tanner wrote: |
| hdenter wrote: |
Not my own. If you do a search with key words you should find the thread on how to do it. Someone might have it book marked and post it here for you. It's fairly simple, cut stock early rotor down to a hub, drill holes/tap hub to mount Mercedes rotor. Slightly mod mounting holes on spindle to attach BMW calipers. Buy or make short hard line to attach hydraulics. It's a little nerve racking to remove metal from the hub to mount the rotor, but after 50k curb bashing pot hole miles with 2000# of tools and materials, I've had no problems. The rotors are well vented and I have not had one warp since I did the swap.
Hans |
Interesting, thanks for sharing that. It's still got the problem of sourcing parts for an obsolete OE brake setup instead of generic racing parts, but it's definitely a better setup than most implementations and easier to engineer than my setup was. |
Yeah the BMW calipers are impossible to source almost....
People like plug and play, your set up is the future. You would sell kits if you made them , especially fitting stock wheel size.
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2754
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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There's ten pages of 7series calipers on car-part.com if any body needs them.
Hans
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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while were on the wilwood early van brake topic..
this may be vague but IIRC the vanagon front caliper has the same bolt spacing as the early 70's Porsche 911 caliper..
does Wilwood make a caliper for those early 911s? that would maybe fit onto the OE van rotor mounts?
or..
is there a ready made caliper adapter from side to radial calipers?
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Keith Tanner
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
while were on the wilwood early van brake topic..
this may be vague but IIRC the vanagon front caliper has the same bolt spacing as the early 70's Porsche 911 caliper..
does Wilwood make a caliper for those early 911s? that would maybe fit onto the OE van rotor mounts?
or..
is there a ready made caliper adapter from side to radial calipers? |
You've got a couple of other dimensions you'd need to take into account for the 911 caliper. What's the distance from the center of the spindle to the mounting holes? That will affect the rotor diameter. You also have to take the axial location into account, that will affect the rotor offset. Maybe all the VW/Porsche/Audi engineers work off a standardized set of dimensions so you can bolt everything up, that sure would be nice. But they don't agree on wheel bolt patterns, so I don't know if we'd get that lucky.
Wilwood doesn't list an application for early 911s. Generally speaking, they don't build specific calipers for specific applications unless it happens to be a GM part that is also used in common US race series. I'm sure Brembo would have some bolt-on 911 upgrades if the geometry works out. There sure is no shortage of racing 911s.
A ready-made caliper adapter assumes you're looking for a specific set of dimensions, so there aren't generic ones. That's usually the part you have to engineer when you're doing a brake kit, it's the one thing you typically can't pick up off the shelf.
My concern with a BMW 7-series caliper isn't finding one set of junkyard calipers that will work for a while. It's finding rebuild kits in the future and finding quality pads at any time. Big luxury sedans rarely have a good variety of pads available, they tend to be biased towards long life and low dust and low price. I like to be able to choose my friction level, my operating temperature range and a few other factors. This was a design criteria I set for myself.
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fxr
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Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2325
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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Following - I'm very interested, and would love to be able to fit this to my early spindles.
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1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
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Keith Tanner
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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Unfortunately, it looks like neither variation of the kit will fit under 14" steel wheels (aka, my spare). The face of the caliper is further inboard than stock, but it's got a more square profile that interferes with a lip on the barrel. A small spacer would handle it, and I suspect that alloys would be okay. But there you go.
The machinist who made my originals is willing to do more of them. I'm not looking to start up another aftermarket parts company, so I think I'll confirm some costs and then open it up as a group buy for the brackets and the modified hubs, and I can give a parts list for the others. More details to come.
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Last edited by Keith Tanner on Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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If they fit under 15" rims, then it would open up options for a lot of folks running that size rim. I believe all the other big brake kits require 16" rims
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Keith Tanner
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Joined: December 12, 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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They definitely fit under 15", because that's what I have
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fxr
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Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2325
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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| Keith Tanner wrote: |
Unfortunately, it looks like neither variation of the kit won't fit under 14" steel wheels (aka, my spare). The face of the caliper is further inboard than stock, but it's got a more square profile that interferes with a lip on the barrel. A small spacer would handle it, and I suspect that alloys would be okay. But there you go.
The machinist who made my originals is willing to do more of them. I'm not looking to start up another aftermarket parts company, so I think I'll confirm some costs and then open it up as a group buy for the brackets and the modified hubs, and I can give a parts list for the others. More details to come. |
My spare is an original 14" steel wheel as well. I suspect many running 15" wheels kept one of the old wheels as a spare that easily fits in the front storage location without modifying it.
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1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Wilwood brakes on early spindles |
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often you have to compromise with a big brake kit that won't fit a 14" spare..
and in event of a front flat remove a rear tire to move forward and put the 14in steel 'donut' spare on the back
this of course only works in a Syncro if the outside diameters are very nearly identical.. yes you can have a 14in spare on a syncro with 15 or 16in rims.. either with a decoupler or diameter matched tires.
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