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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:52 pm Post subject: I'm stumped on this one ....video update 7/31 |
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It's a type 4 2413cc with IDF48's, electronic ign. in an 009 dizz. It has two mufflers, left side and right side. The pass side muffler is belching out smoke which gets progressively worse quickly. After a minute it's clouding up the driveway. drivers side is fine. Troubleshooting completed: leak down test:passed, valve adjust:passed, ignition wiring and timing:passed, installed new pugs, Cleaned carbs, check float level,swapped carbs over (no change,still smoke on passenger side). The only thing I found to be out of order was spark plug #1 would be wet when I pull it though it is for sure firing. Spark plug #2 is not wet but is sooty. All intake and exhaust gaskets are tight and new and double checked. What could I be missing? I give up for today and hope for some Samba help. Thx all.
Last edited by CrazyTestPilot on Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:35 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Are the 1/2 side exhaust pipes getting hot like the 3/4 side? _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Well, the problem started before I could get the carbs sync'd. Even though they're at startup settings I couldn't really say which side is doing the work as they both get hot and of course I've gone nuts with adjustments trying to fix the problem just to have to go back to default startup settings. No carb adjustments had any affect on the smoke issue. But yes both sides get hot. |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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There is a pic of the engine in my galley. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Try cleaning the idle jets and report back.
That always made my dual carbs run super rich on one side.
Make sure to clean all of them. Even if the 3/4 side is running good. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Generally white bluey smoke is oil , black smoke is fuel , if it’s black smoke , then the float height or needle and seat may be a cause . But you have swapped carbs ,so that eliminates that .
If it’s white bluey smoke then it is most likely oil getting in either past the rings or piston or valve guide/ valve stems . Not much else it can be , It hasn’t been over filled and the #1 #2 side lower than the other side ? |
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dogmeat Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2021 Posts: 146
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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could also be a leak in the head to barrel joint
is this a new build? did it ever run smokless? |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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What Wreck said. If its a valve guide, when you turn either left or right, it will James bond the folks behind you. |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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It is the bluey smoke. Engine has about 10 hours on it w/new pistons ,rings, valves and guides. . Built from the ground up over at NW Connecting rod. It wasn't smoking two days ago and it hasn't left the garage. This actually just started without anything happening to the engine. All I've been doing is dialing in the throttle linkage and suspension. What is "a leak in the head to barrel joint" ? |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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I also just moved the external oil cooler to just above where the engine and trans meet. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7373
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Sometimes you can peer up between the valve spring and see if the valve guide walked and moved up towards the retainer. |
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Kafer_Mike Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 341 Location: Noblesville, IN
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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If it's oil, it can only get in the cylinder from the head side (loose valve guide or crack/porosity in the head) or from the case side past the piston and rings (scored or warped barrel, broke/missing ring or misaligned ring gaps). You mentioned doing a leak down test. How much, how long and what did they measure?
If it's fuel, check the idle jetting on the carbs and for any air leaks at the base and tops of the intakes. Wet and sooty would indicate a lean and rich condition. Also, did you change and check plugs with the carb swap? If not, try that and see if they indicate the same wet and sooty pattern. _________________ Kafer_Mike
Build 'em fast...or let 'em sit. |
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Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3682 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Did you seat the rings after the rebuild? If not all the time idling while messing with the carbs could have glazed the cylinders, causing the blue smoke to get worse as you go. _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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On the leak down test i put in 95lbs and i lost 5lbs through the case on #'s 1/2. No leaks at valves. Sadly though if i rotate the crank 90 degree either direction compression is "0". I don't yet comprehend what that means exactly but I think it's bad. brain is tired for now. thx all. |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:38 am Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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Scored cylinder bore ? Problem with gudgeon pin coming out ?
Bore is still clean at TDC then rings cross over grooves and leak further down.. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:17 am Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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If you rotate the crank the valves open....unless you pulled the rockers. You need to get the carbs sorted before writing off the engine, sounds like they're unbalanced and flooding that side _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:25 am Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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As I said before... I swapped the carbs over. No change. |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:31 am Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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So I thought I would try something new to me. I removed the rockers then did a leak down test at 3 points per cyl. TDC, middle and BDC. Using 50 lbs of pressure and starting at the top here are the results: #1= 47/45/30 #2=47/45/28 #3=47/45/33 #4=45/47/47. This is on a cold engine. |
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Kafer_Mike Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 341 Location: Noblesville, IN
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!! |
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If it is truly WHITE/BLUE smoke (oil, not gas) and based on your leak down results, it's not the rings. I'm guessing a bad valve guide. The guides are on the back side of the closed valves and seats. As such, they won't show leakage on the leak down test. _________________ Kafer_Mike
Build 'em fast...or let 'em sit. |
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CrazyTestPilot Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2022 Posts: 208 Location: Seattle, WA.
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: I'm stumped on this one ...plz help!!....SOLVED I think |
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So after pulling everything apart I found the ring gaps had migrated and were now separated by only .5 to 1 inch on #2 and1.5 inch on #1. And the oil ring wasn't to far away either. I have to assume that this is the culprit and easy enough to fix however I've never seen this happen before and I wonder why it did ??? or how to prevent it? |
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