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Disc brake conversion questions.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
I don't even use the clip....I just stuff the cable in the hole...turn the tire until it fits the square and then drive. It never gives me any issues that way.
This way I don't have to pull the wheel off when I remove the body...I can just pull the cable out.

Well, it did seem like there was a bit of pressure holding it there but I just wanted to be sure I wasn't trolling for fish on the highway 1/2 way to somewhere.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

The clips that hold the cooling flap linkages on will work if you have some of them laying around.
I have used them before but found it a PITA to have to pull the wheel due to the center caps coming off from the back side.
Hub caps don’t give that issue.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

Thanks!
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BIGMIKEY
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
The conversion went well. It even self bled! I just topped up the reservoir, opened the bleed valves and gravity took over. Nice firm peddle.

I was expecting a bigger change in the feel of the brakes on the road but there is really not that much difference. Should help with the brake fade pulling the trailer in the mountains though.:


I felt the same way about brake feel when I did my beetle with Ghia discs and Girling calipers. Definitely not the amazing improvement in stopping power that I read about on these forums and expected to get. However after 2 years I feel it was a worthwhile change. Not needing to adjust them is also a plus.

Mike T
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

Defiantly anticlimactic. I expect all the hype came from the magazine articles that were commissioned to sell them.

Not going back though as I have plans for rear discs. Won't be the Empi ones. Looking for a bit more of a change back there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Defiantly anticlimactic. I expect all the hype came from the magazine articles that were commissioned to sell them.

Not going back though as I have plans for rear discs. Won't be the Empi ones. Looking for a bit more of a change back there.



Could the choice of master cylinder be a contributing factor in the disappointment?
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Wreck
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

there is a reason semi trucks have drum brakes !
If you look at what is actually stoping the vehicle , 4 small pads squeezing a disc verses 4 long shoes at the outer diameter of the drum where the leverage is better . as well as the leading shoe acts as a wedge into the drum . Type 3's and buses with drum front brakes use a double leading shoe system , thats why there are 4 front cylinders .

Type 3 rear drum brakes on a bug will more stopping power than the typical aftermarket rear disc kit every one fits .

The biggest advantage to discs is more consistent stopping and self adjusting a lot less maintenance in general .
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

Freebug, I didn’t change the master cylinder. It’s the stock Beetle dual one.

Good point Wreck! Yes those pads are pretty tiny. I was surprised to see how small the are when I got the parts. I didn’t go with the 944 front brakes that I already had because I thought they would be way too much for the front of a light Buggy. These do lock up the front tires though but so did the drums. The present tires are 23” tall so that is a big factor. I want to go taller to get a better ride and to correct the speedometer reading so will see what happens then.
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Wreck
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

I think a lot of this sort of work is trial and error . I also think people over look the rear brakes ,particularly if they have way bigger rear tyres than front and a lot smaller diameter front tyres than stock , like 134/ 145r15s etc . It's then the rear that needs more stopping power .

I've rear discs brakes off a 70's Aussie muscle car on rear of my off road camper , with stock bay front discs and m/cylinder plus booster . With 215/75r15s front and 31 10.5r15s rear , I still need to use a wilwood adjustable valve to restrict the front brakes . I adjust it till the rears start to lock first , then dial is forward to just lock the fronts .
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

Wreck I totally agree. When I installed my 914 rear brakes I had to make the mounting plates..

At that time early 80's not many suppliers sold rear disc brakes and the ones that did, did not have emergency brakes and were super expensive
To adjust I use a fielder gauge like adjusting spark plugs.

They work great and the emergence brake cables just bolted up.

Trying to get parts was crazy seeing besides the 914 I stripped to get the brakes the only other car that had those brakes was a Ferrari Dino !!
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H2OSB
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions

That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.

H20SB
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

H2OSB wrote:
I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions

That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.

H20SB


Your not missing out on anything, dont go back to drums lol. The drums get hot and warp way easier then disk. If a guy drives like a old man, he can get away with drums. But if you have to brake hard from a moderate speed, or brake modestly from 100mph, the drums warp real easy.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

This is just the first step in brake upgrades. As I said earlier for you late comers, the rear will get a set of 944 discs as part of an IRS conversion. I am expecting a large change there and am hoping it does not bias the car too much to the rear with these less than expected fronts I have now.

If it does I suppose there is the option to put an adjustable bias valve on the rear. If I can find one that actually functions that is, the last one I bought acted like a block valve and would not let any pressure past it at all!

Part of the reason for the upgrade is that I plan to go with taller tires all around so the stock brakes will be less effective. I want 26" tall on the front to help with ride and correct the speedometer and somewhere between 28 and 30" rear to get the cruise RPM down a bit.
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Last edited by oprn on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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txoval
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

Agree. As the drums get hot, they expand and lose pressure

With discs, when the rotor expands from heat, it’s expanding into the pads

Not to mention the piston size of a disc caliper is 4x the size of the piss ant drum brake cylinders

Regarding big rigs:

https://www.autoserviceworld.com/jobbernews/disc-b...have-them/

https://www.truckandbusaccidentlawyers.com/2014/08/26/trucking-companies-still-using-drum-brakes/
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H2OSB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
H2OSB wrote:
I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions

That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.

H20SB


Your not missing out on anything, dont go back to drums lol. The drums get hot and warp way easier then disk. If a guy drives like a old man, he can get away with drums. But if you have to brake hard from a moderate speed, or brake modestly from 100mph, the drums warp real easy.


Oh no, I didn't mean that. My current car has vented discs. I just meant I wish I'd tried them a bit to have something to compare to. The CB Performance brakes ( typical of pretty much all conversion kits) were excellent, and are my basis for minimal stopping power.

H20SB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. Reply with quote

There are way to many variables in disc brakes that everything makes a difference.

Floating piston(s) or floating calipers?
The number and size(s) of the piston(s)?
Pad surface area?
Pad composition ?
Rotor diameter and thickness ?
Solid rotor or ventilated ?
Master cylinder size ?
Brake fluid type ?
Proportioning valve percentages ?

I personally have found the best pads from EBC and run their "Yellow" pads!
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