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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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clonebug wrote: |
I don't even use the clip....I just stuff the cable in the hole...turn the tire until it fits the square and then drive. It never gives me any issues that way.
This way I don't have to pull the wheel off when I remove the body...I can just pull the cable out. |
Well, it did seem like there was a bit of pressure holding it there but I just wanted to be sure I wasn't trolling for fish on the highway 1/2 way to somewhere. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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The clips that hold the cooling flap linkages on will work if you have some of them laying around.
I have used them before but found it a PITA to have to pull the wheel due to the center caps coming off from the back side.
Hub caps don’t give that issue. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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Thanks! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1102 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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oprn wrote: |
The conversion went well. It even self bled! I just topped up the reservoir, opened the bleed valves and gravity took over. Nice firm peddle.
I was expecting a bigger change in the feel of the brakes on the road but there is really not that much difference. Should help with the brake fade pulling the trailer in the mountains though.: |
I felt the same way about brake feel when I did my beetle with Ghia discs and Girling calipers. Definitely not the amazing improvement in stopping power that I read about on these forums and expected to get. However after 2 years I feel it was a worthwhile change. Not needing to adjust them is also a plus.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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Defiantly anticlimactic. I expect all the hype came from the magazine articles that were commissioned to sell them.
Not going back though as I have plans for rear discs. Won't be the Empi ones. Looking for a bit more of a change back there. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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oprn wrote: |
Defiantly anticlimactic. I expect all the hype came from the magazine articles that were commissioned to sell them.
Not going back though as I have plans for rear discs. Won't be the Empi ones. Looking for a bit more of a change back there. |
Could the choice of master cylinder be a contributing factor in the disappointment? |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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there is a reason semi trucks have drum brakes !
If you look at what is actually stoping the vehicle , 4 small pads squeezing a disc verses 4 long shoes at the outer diameter of the drum where the leverage is better . as well as the leading shoe acts as a wedge into the drum . Type 3's and buses with drum front brakes use a double leading shoe system , thats why there are 4 front cylinders .
Type 3 rear drum brakes on a bug will more stopping power than the typical aftermarket rear disc kit every one fits .
The biggest advantage to discs is more consistent stopping and self adjusting a lot less maintenance in general . |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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Freebug, I didn’t change the master cylinder. It’s the stock Beetle dual one.
Good point Wreck! Yes those pads are pretty tiny. I was surprised to see how small the are when I got the parts. I didn’t go with the 944 front brakes that I already had because I thought they would be way too much for the front of a light Buggy. These do lock up the front tires though but so did the drums. The present tires are 23” tall so that is a big factor. I want to go taller to get a better ride and to correct the speedometer reading so will see what happens then. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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I think a lot of this sort of work is trial and error . I also think people over look the rear brakes ,particularly if they have way bigger rear tyres than front and a lot smaller diameter front tyres than stock , like 134/ 145r15s etc . It's then the rear that needs more stopping power .
I've rear discs brakes off a 70's Aussie muscle car on rear of my off road camper , with stock bay front discs and m/cylinder plus booster . With 215/75r15s front and 31 10.5r15s rear , I still need to use a wilwood adjustable valve to restrict the front brakes . I adjust it till the rears start to lock first , then dial is forward to just lock the fronts .
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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Wreck I totally agree. When I installed my 914 rear brakes I had to make the mounting plates..
At that time early 80's not many suppliers sold rear disc brakes and the ones that did, did not have emergency brakes and were super expensive
To adjust I use a fielder gauge like adjusting spark plugs.
They work great and the emergence brake cables just bolted up.
Trying to get parts was crazy seeing besides the 914 I stripped to get the brakes the only other car that had those brakes was a Ferrari Dino !! _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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H2OSB Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013 Posts: 1282 Location: Modesto, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions
That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.
H20SB _________________ (o\_i_/o) I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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H2OSB wrote: |
I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions
That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.
H20SB |
Your not missing out on anything, dont go back to drums lol. The drums get hot and warp way easier then disk. If a guy drives like a old man, he can get away with drums. But if you have to brake hard from a moderate speed, or brake modestly from 100mph, the drums warp real easy. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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This is just the first step in brake upgrades. As I said earlier for you late comers, the rear will get a set of 944 discs as part of an IRS conversion. I am expecting a large change there and am hoping it does not bias the car too much to the rear with these less than expected fronts I have now.
If it does I suppose there is the option to put an adjustable bias valve on the rear. If I can find one that actually functions that is, the last one I bought acted like a block valve and would not let any pressure past it at all!
Part of the reason for the upgrade is that I plan to go with taller tires all around so the stock brakes will be less effective. I want 26" tall on the front to help with ride and correct the speedometer and somewhere between 28 and 30" rear to get the cruise RPM down a bit. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)
Last edited by oprn on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3540 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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H2OSB Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013 Posts: 1282 Location: Modesto, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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jpaull wrote: |
H2OSB wrote: |
I installed CB Performance disc brakes front and rear on my '73 Super Beetle very shortly after buying the car without really giving the factory drum brakes much of a chance to prove themselves. However, the car had been sitting with very little driving for many years by the P.O. and much of the factory parts were very rusty and needing replacement. My son and I were building the car for him (he was 16 at the time), and as his first car, I wanted the brakes in top nick. The cost to replace all the factory parts with new factory style parts was very near the cost of the brake conversion kits. Since we planned to autocross the car and disc brakes have reduced routine maintenance, we elected to buy the conversions
That all said, the brakes were amazing IMO. If those of you who have driven a Beetle with drum brakes and found the disc brakes to be only a marginal improvement I kinda wish I'd given the drum brakes a bit of a chance.
H20SB |
Your not missing out on anything, dont go back to drums lol. The drums get hot and warp way easier then disk. If a guy drives like a old man, he can get away with drums. But if you have to brake hard from a moderate speed, or brake modestly from 100mph, the drums warp real easy. |
Oh no, I didn't mean that. My current car has vented discs. I just meant I wish I'd tried them a bit to have something to compare to. The CB Performance brakes ( typical of pretty much all conversion kits) were excellent, and are my basis for minimal stopping power.
H20SB _________________ (o\_i_/o) I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants. |
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RCP Phx Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2021 Posts: 496 Location: Phoenix,AZ
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion questions. |
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There are way to many variables in disc brakes that everything makes a difference.
Floating piston(s) or floating calipers?
The number and size(s) of the piston(s)?
Pad surface area?
Pad composition ?
Rotor diameter and thickness ?
Solid rotor or ventilated ?
Master cylinder size ?
Brake fluid type ?
Proportioning valve percentages ?
I personally have found the best pads from EBC and run their "Yellow" pads! |
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