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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2770
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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As Ray mentioned, the CIS system's "elegance" was in its simplicity and reliability. Probably EMP proof  .
But with today's megasquirt or other highly sophisticated engine management systems available for ACVW's, CIS is truly "stone knives and bearskins". |
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Ktk833
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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| mondshine wrote: |
As Ray mentioned, the CIS system's "elegance" was in its simplicity and reliability. Probably EMP proof .
But with today's megasquirt or other highly sophisticated engine management systems available for ACVW's, CIS is truly "stone knives and bearskins". |
Hehe Mondshine, I like your "stone knives and bearskins" expressions.
Let me go for that based on its "simplicity and reliability" nature as well as affordability.
This has been a great thread to inspire me towards that. I will purpose to probably use the same thread to post my progress on the same project. |
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Ktk833
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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| Mondshine, seems you were directing me to a more modern path, so kindly advice me (and all others), what about the montronic system used on the VW Golf? I stumbled upon that unit in my search for a CIS donner car. |
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MuzzcoVW
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Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1475
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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| UT_Tech wrote: |
Our company has been building products for CIS fuel injection, primarily for Porsche and Mercedes. We were trolling around for another test platform when we had the bright idea to convert a Type 1 to CIS fuel injection. Sure this has been done before, but since we needed a ready supply of fresh meat we decided to make the conversion easy and inexpensive. Yes, it can be done! Basically we came up with a few important pieces to graft a CIS fuel injection system from any 1st generation Rabbit/Jetta/Scirocco/Cabrio onto any air-cooled Type 1 or Type 2.
Dimensioned drawings and material lists will be posted on our website in the next few weeks. This info is being made available to the VW community at no charge. We were amazed at how much better our '69 VW ran with fuel injection. We'll post test results soon but the power and economy are significantly improved.
Why is CIS a good choice? To put it simply, it's easy and inexpensive. The complete injection system cost about $200 at the local pick-your-part junkyard. We could have paid 1/2 price on Tuesday, but I was busy that Tuesday! CIS parts are widely available used, new parts are very cheap (injectors <$40), there's no wiring harness, tuning is easy, and the stock system is capable of big power (200hp or more). The rest of the conversion parts were about another $200. The cost is far less than a good set of carbs and it's much easier to tune for either power or economy. If you want your Type 2 to get 25mpg or you're building a sand-rail motor then fuel injection is the way to go.
The engine below is in a '69 type 1. These photos were taken just after we got it running so it still looks a bit sloppy. This is a Dual Port engine with heads from DRD Racing. The displacement is 1915cc and the compression is set to 8.5:1 with a mild street cam. Since we had the engine apart to check everything we also threw in a set of gapless rings because we're planning to add a turbo later. Here's the complete install:
In case you're wondering, the hood closes just fine over the fuel distributor. The air filter isn't in place in the photo but it sits below the fuel distributor. The center tube and the two manifold plenums on the sides are the only major custom pieces in the conversion. The center piece is here:
The side manifold plenums sit on low-profile Type 3 Weber carb manifolds, CB performance PN 3170. Here's a photo of the passenger side showing the unit in place:
We used Mercedes injectors for better flow and lower cost. This drawing shows how the injectors are mounted in the plenums is here:
There's a ton more info on the way, including a low-buck tuning method using a $20 narrow-band O2 sensor. Economy and performance tuning numbers should be available next week. |
Very cool! I LOVE my factory F.I. but this is an interesting alternative |
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mikedjames
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 2745
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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That looks interesting - I have a complete CIS system I was about to fit a few years back then other things got in the way - before I got hold of it it had a Rabbit (Golf) throttle body grafted on it , and various pieces from Ford cars added (because the same component for a Porsche cost 4x the price.. ) .
It had a Mexican Beetle plenum and manifold ends, fortunately the engine is only a 1641 so air flow shouldnt be an issue.
I had it all up and running , bench tested with the injectors feeding into a soft drinks bottle with holes cut in the side. It looked like all of the parts worked.
I went as far as fitting a fuel return elbow in the filler connection of my fuel tank.
Then realised that supporting the huge fuel distributor was an issue.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2770
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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| Ktk833 wrote: |
| Mondshine, seems you were directing me to a more modern path, so kindly advice me (and all others), what about the montronic system used on the VW Golf? I stumbled upon that unit in my search for a CIS donner car. |
Rather than try to re-invent the wheel, I still believe the hardware from a VW Mexico system, engineered for an air cooled Type 1 engine would be the best choice.
It could be controlled, along with ignition if desired, by a megasquirt brain which would provide "up-to-date" engine management.
Good luck with your project. |
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Ktk833
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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| mondshine wrote: |
| Ktk833 wrote: |
| Mondshine, seems you were directing me to a more modern path, so kindly advice me (and all others), what about the montronic system used on the VW Golf? I stumbled upon that unit in my search for a CIS donner car. |
Rather than try to re-invent the wheel, I still believe the hardware from a VW Mexico system, engineered for an air cooled Type 1 engine would be the best choice.
It could be controlled, along with ignition if desired, by a megasquirt brain which would provide "up-to-date" engine management.
Good luck with your project. |
Thanks. I appreciate. Let me take a second look at the megasquirt thingy.
Cheers. |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2770
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Easy, Inexpensive Fuel Injection Conversion |
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Here is a photo (from the gallery) of the VW Mexico fuel injection as installed.
It's a neat package, when compared with boxy plenums and other cobbled up stuff I have seen.
Controlled by a modern, programmable brain, and for "moderate" displacement increases, this is the way forward (especially in a Beetle with limited space in the engine compartment). |
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