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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| joemama wrote: |
| Mostly there are 2 styles of throw out bearings, as well as pressure plates. 1970 and earlier, and 1971 and later. Is there a clutch and pressure plate on the 1600? If so, post a picture, so it makes it easier to help you. |
No. There is only a flywheel on the 1600. |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| extremebuggy wrote: |
Yea I thought the clutch and pressure plate will need to be changed to match the 200mm flywheel. So changing the throw out bearing to match the 200mm clutch.
This will all work with the swing axle and not mess anything up? I am not use to doing this kind of swap.
Thanks thank for the help! |
It is quite possible to grind out the bell housing with a carbide burr in a drill. Here is my final result opening up a 40 swingaxle box to fit a 12 volt 200mm flywheel. Most of the metal to be removed was at the back as it curved in, around the starter, bushing, around each of the 4 motor bolt holes, and my top center area of the bell housing was a little low.
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Did you have to modify or do any type of conversion for the upgraded throw out bearing for the swing axle? Since you need it to match the upgraded 200mm flywheel/clutch/pressure plate. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5474
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| extremebuggy wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| extremebuggy wrote: |
Yea I thought the clutch and pressure plate will need to be changed to match the 200mm flywheel. So changing the throw out bearing to match the 200mm clutch.
This will all work with the swing axle and not mess anything up? I am not use to doing this kind of swap.
Thanks thank for the help! |
It is quite possible to grind out the bell housing with a carbide burr in a drill. Here is my final result opening up a 40 swingaxle box to fit a 12 volt 200mm flywheel. Most of the metal to be removed was at the back as it curved in, around the starter, bushing, around each of the 4 motor bolt holes, and my top center area of the bell housing was a little low.
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Did you have to modify or do any type of conversion for the upgraded throw out bearing for the swing axle? Since you need it to match the upgraded 200mm flywheel/clutch/pressure plate. |
No, the clutch size was upped to 200mm in 1967 but the pressure plate didn't change at the release arms until 1971. So if you use a 1967-1970 style 200mm clutch setup you still use the older style throw out bearing.
If you have the later type clutch on your 1600 you can either swap to the older style pressure plate or you can replace the clutch release arm and install the adapter sleeve and seal that installs in the hole for the normal input shaft seal. I'd guess swapping in the older style pressure plate is easier. My engine came with the older style pressure plate because it was intended for a 1967 Bug (single port 1600 with 30 PICT-1 carb.)
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| Any idea how to get a seized up gland nut off? Just broke a 1/2 inch breaker bar trying to get it loose. Guess I may have to take it local shop and see if their impact will take it off. |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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Impact got the gland nut off no problem. But there may be a new problem. If I am doing I’m this right, then I have 70/1000 end play. Bearings are shot I guess. Only solution is to break down the case, I suppose??? This is my first rebuild so just trying to see what all needs to be done. Thanks for the advice.
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Luftwagen 2180
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| Hmm... looks like my old engine. In theory if you were to add .070 of shims behind the flywheel you would have .002 of end play. When I did that the engine was seized. This is what happens when the flywheel end main bearing floats in the engine case. It won't turn because of the dowel holding it but it will allow a lot of end play. Solution is either a line bore job or a new case. However it did run that way for a number of years without issue. Not sure how much end play could be before something grabs something it shouldn't inside. |
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MrGoodtunes
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 851
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| extremebuggy wrote: |
| ... solution is to break down the case, I suppose??? ... |
Did you ever check for loosness in the actual bearing itself? Use your thumbs:
In case you miss'd the crucial part of that Wolfgang article, he wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
... place both thumbs on the rear main bearing. Have your buddy push and pull the front crank pulley. Can you feel the rear main bearing moving?
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That author has front and rear confused. The propper "front" is front of car, which is the flywheel end of the crankshaft. So it's the front bearing you need to check on. None the less, this author has pinpointed the very important check procedure you need to do. |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| MrGoodtunes wrote: |
| extremebuggy wrote: |
| ... solution is to break down the case, I suppose??? ... |
Did you ever check for loosness in the actual bearing itself? Use your thumbs:
In case you miss'd the crucial part of that Wolfgang article, he wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
... place both thumbs on the rear main bearing. Have your buddy push and pull the front crank pulley. Can you feel the rear main bearing moving?
<<<<<<<<<<
That author has front and rear confused. The propper "front" is front of car, which is the flywheel end of the crankshaft. So it's the front bearing you need to check on. None the less, this author has pinpointed the very important check procedure you need to do. |
Great idea! I thought about that. Have not checked to see it main bearing moves. Will do that as soon as I get to work on it again. Will let y’all know what happens! Thanks! |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| My guess would be that the crank would probably move but the bearing should not? Am I correct on that? |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12708
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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That is correct. Any movement at all even a tiny bit means the case needs to be machined. The main bearings should be an interference fit.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| Well the case has been stamped “040”, but that’s all the numbering I see. My assumption would be that is the line bore of 40 over, so 66mm. No stamp about the trust cut. I would think if they went through the trouble of stamping the line bore, they would go ahead and stamp the thrust cut. Unless it has not been thrust cut??? Guess I’ll split it open and mic the thrust and see. Nothing to lose, right? |
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extremebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Cleveland, TN
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild or not? |
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| Well I opened it up and if I am doing it correctly (which not sure how you can screw it up), the thrust on the main bearing measured out at 18.5mm. Wow! Hope they start stocking new cases soon. I think I need one! |
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