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1960 wheels and tires
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:01 pm    Post subject: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

I have read as much as I can here on wheels and tires and I think I have an idea of where I am going so I wanted to throw this out there. A little background, this car has drop spindles (and disc brakes) and an adjustable front beam. The back has been lowered I believe 1 outer spline. This is basically how I started with the car, including 195x65 tires on 5.5 stock wheels all the way around. After adding the disk brakes, the fronts now sit about an inch out. I am mostly making this car as a long term drag strip project and grocery getter. I am not interested in how low this car is, or how tucked the wheels are. However, I still want it to look good and I have been thinking about running a narrower front regardless. I just didn't know enough about wheel sizes to understand my options. So, after much reading, youtube, etc, I was left thinking the 195x65 is probably good on the back, but wondering what the narrower 4.5 would like like up front. My calculations were that the rim edge should sit about 1/2 inch further in, but my understanding of backspace and offset are weak. Standing in the garage tonight, wondering about this, I noticed my spare. Well that just happens to be a 4.5 with a 135 on it. Here are some pictures of the fit. I probably won't run a 135, and there isn't an aspect ratio on the spare, but it gave me a really good idea of what this will look like.

Based on all this, I am leaning towards getting a pair of slotted 4.5 stock wheels and running something about as wide as the spare. This falls apart if the spare isn't a standard 4.5 with some other backspace, but it looks that way to me. Any takers?

BEFORE
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Personally I dislike 135’s as I find them unsafe in sudden braking situations. With that said, you have a couple of options. First off, the stock wheels are actually 4”. All aftermarket are 4.5-5.5”. If this is a short trip car, you can possibly get away with the 135’s. You could also go with a shorter sidewall on the narrower rim. Something like a 165/45/15 would keep from rubbing. But might look goofy unless it’s dropped down. However, a shorter ratio isn’t going to bring the tires in. Honestly, what you need is a narrowed beam. Right now you have the spindles kicking the wheels outward. You also have disc brakes kicking the wheels out and then you have wider front wheels. In order to properly bring the wheels in you need a narrower beam or possibly heavily modified custom backspaced wheels. Even then you would have a hard time getting it under the fender without narrowing the beam.

My opinion is, you should have a 3-4” beam, and custom backspaced wheels made up in a 5.5”. I would then run a 175/50 or 55 on the front. You might even be able to get away with a 185.

There is a long running ad in the classifieds for a company in California that makes custom backspaced wheel.
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61SNRF
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Stock steel wheels are only 4", not 4.5.

Those chrome wheels you have are available in 4.5 and 5.5, looks like you have 5.5's all around.

Here's what 4.5's with 135's look like up front (they are just painted black). Not disc brake but they are dropped spindles...
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I know one guy who uses 175/45 15's on the front of his Ghia but can't say how they would look on a Beetle.
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback guys and straightening me out on the stock wheel sizes. Jbugs sells the 4.5 as 'stock' and so my confusion.

Beautiful red bug. In my opinion that is a perfect look. I don't get the super low thing. This is perfect.

As far as beam, I have read too many negative things about narrowed beam and handling issues. It might still happen some day, but I have had this thing fairly torn down for a year so really looking forward to having it rolling for a little while.

Thanks again.
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

I have been running a 2” beam on my 60 for almost 5 years and zero issues. Most of the issues in my opinion are from drastically narrowed beams or people that don’t take the time or spend the money to have them properly aligned. I didn’t necessarily want a narrowed beam, but I also didn’t want the tires sticking out and wanted a lowered stance. I think you may find that even with 135’s you may run into some possible rubbing issues.

Here is my 60. Front is a 2” beam, drop spindles with custom backspaced 5.5” wheels and 185/60 tires. I also am running KYB shocks. Rears are off the shelf 5.5’s with 205/60/15. One notch down.


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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Thanks Sharp64. Beautiful.

So my spare turns out to be 4 inch and not 4.5 so that changes things a little. I am pretty sure the backspacing on the 4" and 4.5" are the same (3.75), so a 4.5 inch should sit out 1/2 inch further than what is shown in the pictures... I think!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

taconachoqueso wrote:
Thanks Sharp64. Beautiful.

So my spare turns out to be 4 inch and not 4.5 so that changes things a little. I am pretty sure the backspacing on the 4" and 4.5" are the same (3.75), so a 4.5 inch should sit out 1/2 inch further than what is shown in the pictures... I think!


Yes that’s very likely. For whatever reason, when companies manufacture the OEM style wheel but wider, they simply add the additional width to the outside of the wheel. This was the issue I originally ran into and one of the reasons I needed the narrowed beam as well as the custom backspacing on my fronts. In hindsight I should have gone deeper on the backspacing as I am limited in how much lower I can go. I may just put a narrower beam to bring the wheels in a bit more.
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“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
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mukluk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

taconachoqueso wrote:
... but my understanding of backspace and offset are weak. ...

Backspace is the distance from the inner wheel lip to the wheel mount surface, normally measured in inches. Offset is the distance from the centerline of the wheel's width to the wheel mount surface, normally measured in millimeters. Backspace will generally always be a positive number, but offset will either be positive in the case where the mount surface is outside the wheel centerline (the most common case present on cars) or will be negative in the case where the mount surface is inside the wheel centerline.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

I will add that the stock VW Beetle wheel from the early '50's through '65 are 15 inch by 4 inch wide with an ET+33 (about 3.75 inch backspace.) For every half inch wider the wheel is, with the same backspace, the tire will stick out another quarter inch. For every 10mm wider your tire you choose it will stick out about another 0.2 inch.

You can run your numbers but it looks to me like 135 tires on stock wheels will only buy you about 1.4 inches. Will that clear your fender with the width added by the disc brakes and dropped spindles? I know from experience that 135 tires will handle like crap! It seems to just not be enough rubber to change direction in a hurry.
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Thanks everyone.
EVFun - Yeah I'm not sure. I have time to think and you all gave me the input I needed. I think I am looking at narrowed beam, wider fenders, deal with the look or handle like crap. Narrowed beam doesn't sound as daunting as it did this time year last time. Maybe deal with the look this year and make narrow beam next winters project.
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

I decided I am going to stick with the 195/60 on the rear, on my existing slotted 5.5 inch wheels. I think that is a pretty good look already. On the front I ordered 4.5 inch slotted wheels and 145/65 Continentals. The front will need some work on the geometry, but this is the wheel and tire setup I will be working with. THanks for the help!


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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Thanks again for the feedback. So here is what I ended up with.
I bought some slotted 4.5 inch wheels and 145/65 Continental ContiContact tires. I had not played with it up to this point, but this car came with an adjustable beam. Not narrowed, but adjustable. I lowered it just about to the bottom of the adjusters and I think I am stoked. The narrower wheels and tires took care of the over hang and I am actually able to lower the car further than I thought I would be able to. I won't know for sure until I drive of course, but I can turn the wheel completely to both sides with no rubbing and what appears to be great clearance. I think I really lucked out. I did not think this setup would fit far enough in for what I wanted. Super happy. Again, thanks for the feedback!!!


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richparker
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Dem some skinny tires…. Who’s disc brake set up are you using?
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

It's the empi drop spindle kit
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

What’s the displacement of that engine?
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taconachoqueso
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

2176 built by Painters Grinding in Denver.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 wheels and tires Reply with quote

Cool. I’ll be up to Denver next weekend. I’ll be in my ‘71 Westy, keep an eye out. Maybe we’ll pass each other on the road somewhere.
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