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iowegian 
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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 Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| wheel607 wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Is the rubber in between the fenders and body supposed to be black or body colored? |
BODY COLORED.............this kicks up a red flag for me. Either one, somebody is not telling the truth or "specialist" is full of crap. This is an elementary catch. |
Did you look at the pictures of the subject car? The beading sure looks red to me. And, for comparison, this is what N.O.S. Ruby Red beading (that I bought from a gentleman in The Netherlands) looks like:
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24106
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Many have been forced out of the Porsche market, and VW is next in line. |
This makes great sense, though the Porschephiles I know probably wouldn't stoop so low even if it meant a 914. 
| Dusty1 wrote: |
What is going to kill the VW hobby is overpriced cars. Not just overpriced restored VWs even though many of those are overpriced. IMO the vast majority of "restored" VWs are amateur restorations.
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But this is not about restored cars, but rather mint originals stored in a pickle jar. They are going for tremendously more than "tampered-with" cars, and people savvy enough to have squirreled some away were reading the tea leaves.
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
If you look real close, there is a tiny "VW" logo on this one. But my real question is-----how does it work? I have never seen such a thing (but I do live a sheltered life.) |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
It still amazes me of what I would consider the value of a vehicle is surpassed by thousands, and even tens of thousands of dollars from internet sales. People list stuff on the internet not because they think it will sell for top dollar, but because it does sell for top dollar. I’ve had offers of 200%-300% of what I paid for my most recent 67 Beetle purchase from 2017. None of which were from VW people, none of which were local. All you have to do is get a subscription to Sports Car Market, or a periodical that lists auction prices realized. There were people getting $70k+ from Lowlights, $50k+ for 79 Verts, and $40k+ for Things years ago. Just because someone doesn’t know about it, or feel “it’s not worth it” doesn’t mean there are many others that feel otherwise. |
That is what is going to kill the VW "hobby". |
Unfortunately it’s not killing the hobby. The Aircooled shop I used to work at, that I’ve been attending their Summer show since 1995, just had their largest attended show in 28 years in July of 2022. It’s simply desired/enjoyed by a different group of enthusiasts. If cars are exceeding commonly/previously perceived values, it’s because people are willing to pay it. What it is doing is making it less enjoyable for enthusiasts like yourself, and myself that have been involved since 1989.
| Dusty1 wrote: |
| If the vehicle plus 2000 hours of labor plus a metric ton of parts to restore it exceeds any pragmatic resale price, it's overpriced. |
Overpriced is relative. There are few vehicles that can have paid restorations done on them that can be resold for profit. VW’s aren’t one of them. This again goes back to “what it’s worth”. Few can fathom the labor/cost involved in a “nut and bolt” restoration. While parts costs vary, restoration/labor costs what it costs, whether it’s a Yugo, or a Ferrari. If someone puts $50k into a 74 Superbeetle, that doesn’t automatically make it worth $50k. However, if a duplicate at the same level is wanting to be created, you will be spending at least that amount. You couldn’t buy a 63 Beetle, and have a paid concours restoration done to duplicate the auction vehicle for less than $100k.
| Blue Baron wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Many have been forced out of the Porsche market, and VW is next in line. |
This makes great sense, though the Porschephiles I know probably wouldn't stoop so low even if it meant a 914. |
Funny you should mention that, as there is a 1976 914 estimated to sell between $60k-$80k in the same auction. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2664
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| wheel607 wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Is the rubber in between the fenders and body supposed to be black or body colored? |
BODY COLORED.............this kicks up a red flag for me. Either one, somebody is not telling the truth or "specialist" is full of crap. This is an elementary catch. |
But it is body colored. I don't understand.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24106
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
If you look real close, there is a tiny "VW" logo on this one. But my real question is-----how does it work? I have never seen such a thing (but I do live a sheltered life.) |
When the gas tank is impacted, the pressure blows off the stock gas cap (especially the aluminum ones). The "Nader" cap has an internal spring, which compresses with the pressure, keeping the gas cap on. The issue was resolved in '68 with the external filler and better venting.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff
Last edited by Blue Baron on Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3848
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| wheel607 wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Is the rubber in between the fenders and body supposed to be black or body colored? |
BODY COLORED.............this kicks up a red flag for me. Either one, somebody is not telling the truth or "specialist" is full of crap. This is an elementary catch. |
But it is body colored. I don't understand. |
I think there's confusion between your question and the literal definition of the "rubber in between the fenders and body." I believe what you really meant to ask is, "what color should the fender bead be?" But I think what was interpreted was, what color should the ribbed "flange" portion of the fender beading be. After all, the black flange is the part that is literally between the body and fenders, the bead portion sits atop.
In other words, presumably, the entire fender welt (the bead AND flange) should be ONE color (body color), yet a picture of presumably New Old Stock of ORIGINAL fender bead (AKA "welt") was presented, and clearly the entire welt is TWO colors: the BEAD which is body colored, and the FLANGE which is black. I think 607 is saying the entire thing should be body-colored, but there's a difference of opinion.
For what it's worth, most colored fender bead/welt (interchangeable terms) available these days is ALL one color. I have no idea how VW's supplier(s) made it in two colors like the example shown above (red bead with black flange). Two different colored materials fused together? Dunno.
Anyway, that's what I think is going on, but I just might be the one that is confused 
Last edited by Busstom on Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24106
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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Yes, I've seen stock welting where only the piping is body color, while the part you don't see is black.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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wheel607
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| wheel607 wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Is the rubber in between the fenders and body supposed to be black or body colored? |
BODY COLORED.............this kicks up a red flag for me. Either one, somebody is not telling the truth or "specialist" is full of crap. This is an elementary catch. |
But it is body colored. I don't understand. |
I think there's confusion between your question and the literal definition of the "rubber in between the fenders and body." I believe what you really meant to ask is, "what color should the fender bead be?" But I think what was interpreted was, what color should the ribbed "flange" portion of the fender beading be. After all, the black flange is the part that is literally between the body and fenders, the bead portion sits atop.
In other words, presumably, the entire fender welt (the bead AND flange) should be ONE color (body color), yet a picture of presumably New Old Stock of ORIGINAL fender bead (AKA "welt") was presented, and clearly the entire welt is TWO colors: the BEAD which is body colored, and the FLANGE which is black. I think 607 is saying the entire thing should be body-colored, but there's a difference of opinion.
For what it's worth, most colored fender bead/welt (interchangeable terms) available these days is ALL one color. I have no idea how VW's supplier(s) made it in two colors like the example shown above (red bead with black flange). Two different colored materials fused together? Dunno.
Anyway, that's what I think is going on, but I just might be the one that is confused |
I misread the question......This car has the correct body colored fender welting. I suppose if you look at it from the inside it is black, where the bolts go through it. Vw was genius at making or bonding two different colored vinyls. If you cut through it you will notice the color (red) goes all the way through it. It again, appears to be right. At the dealership I worked at, the largest section of the parts dept.was devoted to colored fender welting.....long before all black became popular. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2664
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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Thanks, guys. That clears it up for me.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1423
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
What is going to kill the VW hobby is overpriced cars. Not just overpriced restored VWs even though many of those are overpriced. IMO the vast majority of "restored" VWs are amateur restorations. |
But this is not about restored cars, but rather mint originals stored in a pickle jar. They are going for tremendously more than "tampered-with" cars, and people savvy enough to have squirreled some away were reading the tea leaves.
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
This thread should have had a survey attached. When is a '63 Beetle overpriced?
I can get any number of pretty damn good '63 Beetles for well under under $30k each. Way I see it I shouldn't be able to find fault with anything on a '63 priced over $20k. In other words pay $20k, go to a show, bring home a trophy. Same car, go to another show, bring home another trophy.
If I need to buy an NOS gas cap and carburetor to get a trophy, so be it!
| iowegian wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
If you look real close, there is a tiny "VW" logo on this one. But my real question is-----how does it work? I have never seen such a thing (but I do live a sheltered life.) |
I use Thing gas caps on all my pre- '67 VWs.
Imagine your "investment" evaporating as you drive your bucks- up "investment" grade VW. 
We went out for pizza last night. We dined outdoors. There was a recent Ferrari parked next to our table.
If I was going to throw down $100k on a car it would be a Lotus, three Porsches or a Ferrari.
A Lamborghini is too pretentious. 
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
What is going to kill the VW hobby is overpriced cars. Not just overpriced restored VWs even though many of those are overpriced. IMO the vast majority of "restored" VWs are amateur restorations. |
But this is not about restored cars, but rather mint originals stored in a pickle jar. They are going for tremendously more than "tampered-with" cars, and people savvy enough to have squirreled some away were reading the tea leaves.
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
This thread should have had a survey attached. When is a '63 Beetle overpriced?
I can get any number of pretty damn good '63 Beetles for well under under $30k each. Way I see it I shouldn't be able to find fault with anything on a '63 priced over $20k. In other words pay $20k, go to a show, bring home a trophy. Same car, go to another show, bring home another trophy.
If I need to buy an NOS gas cap and carburetor to get a trophy, so be it!
| iowegian wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
From my own observation, the spring-loaded Ralph Nader gas cap on this car came much later. It's a safety item I install in every car, but it didn't show up until the early '70s as a retrofit item. (You could buy them from the dealer.)
This one looks repro. A real one is silver with a small VW emblem rather than cad plated. |
If you look real close, there is a tiny "VW" logo on this one. But my real question is-----how does it work? I have never seen such a thing (but I do live a sheltered life.) |
I use Thing gas caps on all my pre- '67 VWs.
Imagine your "investment" evaporating as you drive your bucks- up "investment" grade VW.
We went out for pizza last night. We dined outdoors. There was a recent Ferrari parked next to our table.
If I was going to throw down $100k on a car it would be a Lotus, three Porsches or a Ferrari.
A Lamborghini is too pretentious.
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What toppings did you have on your Pizza? |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1423
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| What toppings did you have on your Pizza? |
Sausage and onions with a few roasted red peppers.
Gotta have the sausage when you're from Iowa. Pigs go in, sausage comes out...
We stopped at The Machine Shed near Davenport last time through. We sampled what we call "The Porkasaurus", a pork chop that looks like it was sourced from a Jurassic swine.
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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Sold for $95k
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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johnstrive4
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2022
Posts: 20
Location: Sinsouttercity
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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ALL that matters is ,
This person is happy with his NEW VW. |
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FPGT72
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2022
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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I think this is my first post.....
IMHO this is the worst thing that can happen to the "old car hobby". Now every person with a rusted out (fill in the blank) is going to think it is worth $50k because he saw one "just like it" sell for 98K on barett Jackson.
I have a non related VW story
Story time:
Several years ago I was looking for a 77 Trans Am, think Smokey and the Bandit.
Come across one locally not too bad price, and go to look at it. The "new" engine just needed a distributer to run....so it is not running, no but it is new, ok make it run, it needs a distributer, then it is not running. And the rot in the back.....heck half of the car was just flat horrid, If I tied it to my trailer I would be afraid I would pull it in two.
In the end he was going to get a chevy distributer for his BOP engine and that would work, would I be interested after it was running.....sure, call me. He never called, wonder why. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24106
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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The reason why is because you didn't buy it on the spot and load it up immediately.
When I was on the hunt, I would bring cash and everything I needed to extract the car on the spot, so this type of seller hesitancy could never happen.
This method worked well except for one time when I pulled the trigger on a car I should have thought twice about. In the end I sold it for a profit, but it was still a hassle I didn't need to deal with.
As for this '63, it's nice to see VWs entering the broader classic car market. I see this myself when attending local all-makes car shows. I had two offers to buy my stock/original car just this past weekend at a local cruise-in. Unfortunately, getting priced out of the hobby is a fact many of us have to face as these cars get older, but there are still VWs at all different price points.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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OutbackUSA
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2023
Posts: 18
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Big-Bucks Beetle hits the auction |
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| mukluk wrote: |
VIN 527 9106 makes it a January 1963 production car.
Engine serial 7 455 524 makes it a Febuary 1963 production engine.
  
Close, but no banana. |
Where can I reference the Chassis and Engine SN's?
Thanks |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
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