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blatzer
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Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:11 pm Post subject: double relay issue |
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| testing my double relay per the bentley and the 86a terminal came up empty during 'start' ie there was no signal of voltage on it- does that indicate bad wiring or bad relay- every other test came up positive and i did rearrange the wire cluster on the starter in hopes of invigorating terminal, but alas... |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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blatzer
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| that's great |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| blatzer wrote: |
| that's great |
It should help you track down the issue. Just post what you find here and someone will work with you on it.
This is a rather long winding thread that goes from resolved to back again several times, but it covers a lot of the testing on the double relay. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766706&highlight=double+relay
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telford dorr
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Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:33 am Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| blatzer wrote: |
| testing my double relay per the bentley and the 86a terminal came up empty during 'start' ie there was no signal of voltage on it- does that indicate bad wiring or bad relay- every other test came up positive and i did rearrange the wire cluster on the starter in hopes of invigorating terminal, but alas... |
The 86a terminal is fed by a wire from the starter solenoid (it is effectively an extension of the #50 starter wire). If the starter works, then there is a bad connection on one end or the other on that wire, or it is broken somewhere. Inspect thoroughly, both the wire terminals and the lugs they plug onto. Plug it onto the same terminal group as the #50 wire (some starters have a second set of terminals, but their use is problematic).
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'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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blatzer
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| the other issue is the fuel pump- when the key is on and in start mode- it is not running- per amskeptic every double relay terminal is active except 86a- the fuel pump does work when jumped |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| blatzer wrote: |
| the other issue is the fuel pump- when the key is on and in start mode- it is not running- per amskeptic every double relay terminal is active except 86a- the fuel pump does work when jumped |
does the starter turn properly? If so and someone worked on the starter they may have gotten the wire to the relay on the wrong terminal of the solenoid if it has extra studs for wires.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blatzer
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| i tried that different terminal same result |
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blatzer
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| ready to tow it to the shop at this point |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| blatzer wrote: |
| ready to tow it to the shop at this point |
maybe that is best. you've been asked several times if the starter works when you turn the key. There is a reason people asked that. Let the shop check to see if turning the key makes the starter go.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blatzer
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Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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| i apologize for being frustrated and i'm sure i deserve every snide comment that can be mustered up- |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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you asked for help. Can't help you if you won't answer the questions so we can help you. It really is that simple. Until you tell us if turning the key makes the starter work I have nothing else I can suggest.
| telford dorr wrote: |
| The 86a terminal is fed by a wire from the starter solenoid (it is effectively an extension of the #50 starter wire). If the starter works, then there is a bad connection on one end or the other on that wire, or it is broken somewhere. Inspect thoroughly, both the wire terminals and the lugs they plug onto. Plug it onto the same terminal group as the #50 wire (some starters have a second set of terminals, but their use is problematic). |
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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blatzer
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Joined: June 27, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Austintatious- aka ATX
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:05 am Post subject: Re: double relay issue |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1161806.jpg
if you look at the photo (basicallly upside down) you will see two wires near the bottom and an empty terminal near the top of the solenoid- my red/white wire was on the upper terminal and it wont work there! |
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mikewire
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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