Exhaust options for a Beach Buggy?

[volvofan94]

Hey All,

While I wait for more parts to arrive on the Buggy project I have going on, I'm taking a look at exhaust options for my Beach Buggy. The vehicle will be driven on-road all the time and I'd like to find an exhaust system that doesn't have too much drone at highway speeds or wakes my neighbors up at 6:00am if I drive it to an early morning car show.

Requirements:
1. I want the cannon dual style
2. I'd like to find an exhaust system on the quieter side - don't want an obnoxiously loud system, some engine noise is fine, not looking for a straight pipe system.
3. A ceramic coated system for long life.

Optional:
1. I would definitely consider a system where the heat pipe riser is not included. The engine I'll be using in the Buggy is a VW 1600 with dual 34mm EMPI carburetors and EMPI's high rise intake manifolds.

So far I'm considering two options from EMPI:
1. Ceramic coated dual cannon exhaust - PN: 55-3373
2. VW Dual Ceramic Coated racing set with the muffler inserts - PN: 55-3708

Which system do you think would work best for my needs?

Also, what exhaust systems are others using on their on-road Buggies? I'd like to hear others experience with their exhaust systems before I purchase one.



Thanks!
-volvofan94

[vwracerdave]

The 3373 would probably be quieter.

Please be aware that you will get a lot of negative comments on the dual cannon style exhaust. They are not very efficient and you will be loosing 6-8 HP on a stock 1600. I have run dual exhaust at the drag strip and know how poor they reform. If you are after the look and just what a fun little Buggy to drive around then by all means get the dual exhaust. I ran them for many years despite their lack of performance of what others opinions were.

If you want that little extra performance, I'd consider the EMPI 3300 exhaust
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[EVfun]

Well, my experience says that a dual 1 barrel carbs in a dual port engine with a "dune buggy dual" exhaust system is just about as bad as you can make low end driveability and power. I was using EMPI 00-3376 with dual Kadron carbs on a mostly stock dual port.

I've been told that longer runners help this a little, so perhaps 55-3373 would be better than 55-3707. My EMPI exhaust was as loud as hell and I've never seen any buggy running any similar system that was reasonably quiet.

I did see a VW trike running dual ICT carbs (or the EMPI equivalent.) I did not get close enough to see if it was a single port or dual port engine. The exhaust was the EMPI 18-1047 4 pipe dune buggy exhaust. That isn't a merging system and it seemed to run quite nicely. I watched the trike maneuver around a parking lot and up onto the street. It seemed to run smooth all the way down to idle and pulled nicely off idle. Of course, the very light vehicle may have helped it be quieter, and low end seem stronger.

I went with a Dansk reproduction 1973 Thing exhaust. I took the new system and had it blasted and ceramic coated a dark charcoal gray. I didn't want loud anymore.

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[Q-Dog]

I run this one on a stock dual port 1600 with a 34-3 Solex and real bosch SVDA. It is still quicker from a standstill than any stock Beetle and will do 80mph on the interstate. That works fine for me. The main issue I have with it is the need to remove it to adjust the valves.

Also, the pipes with the removable baffles are a lot louder than these with the glass pack mufflers.

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Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[Luftwagen 2180]

I'm running the racing exhaust with inserts. The primary pipes are a bit longer than the current available ones. One thing that I modified on the insert was the washer in the middle. It's smaller than the outer pipe and bypassed a lot of exhaust and noise. I welded a washer that was close to the outer pipe size and that made it much quieter. I borrowed a friends dual cannons to see if I wanted to go with them next. Mine are getting rusty after 20 years. The cannons are much louder. It runs well with a center mounted progressive carb. It was on my DP 1600 and on the present 2180.

[oprn]

First off I will say that a fiberglass Buggy just does not look period correct with any other exhaust system. But that is just me and my personal taste.

Dual single throat carbs + dual cannon exhaust = the worst possible combination below 2500 rpm. Expect a two cylinder idle, poor low end torque and very hard to make run decent around town at light throttle. Loud.

Single center mounted carb + dual cannons, much better runner, still somewhat lacking in low end torque. Loud.

Dual throat, dual cabs + dual cannons, the best runner you will get with that style exhaust because the uneven draw of the dual cannons at low speeds can be mostly individually tuned out. still loud.

There is one other solution and is the one I chose. That is to build your own system that pairs the cylinders properly. This is not easy, trust me but the results are worth it in my books. You get the dual look without all the downsides of the commercially available dual cannons. You can also choose your own mufflers to suit you sound preference.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[YDBD]

Currently running dual webers and cannons due to header/QP muffler failure after oh..15 years-nothing drastic just innerds shaking and wear on the j-tube flange.

The dual cannons were put on in 2019 when I refitted the buggy to match when we purchased it in in '69:

Yes noticeable power loss.

These are glass pack ones but also run the spark arrestors:
(Holley Bug Spray carb has been swapped back to Webers)

Yes they are loud-compared to the Quiet Pack but not as loud as a stinger with a baffle or glass pack sidewinder.

I did get a couple German guys at the lake wait for me to start it up and got the thumbs up , always nice.

Here's my sound take on it-
idle-nice throaty sound
acceleration-loud, a little obnoxious, especially if in town on streets lined with two to three story buildings, but slow acceleration up to about 3200 rpm is ok. Wide open carbs pedal to the metal-too loud.
deceleration-rumbly sound, a few backfire pops not too bad
highway-a lot of noise comes forward due to the wind so the passengers get more direct noise-I hate the flappy sound from dual cannons, sound out of tune or exhaust leak compared to a merged system (Thing exhausts did the same thing) but over all not too bad unless you put your foot into the carbs-then you get carb noise included.

Was also reading these run the engine a little hotter, but it's a buggy so it's negligible.

Enjoy your buggy the way you want it!
_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"

[oprn]

This is how mine was when I bought it. 1 1/2" cannons and Kadrons. Idled on 2 cylinders most of the time, lots of light throttle drivability issues. Sounded like a pair of badly tuned Harleys, made a glorious racket between buildings in town! My first real 2 hour trip on the highway left my ears ringing all evening!

I had this system so changed the cannons out for it. 1 3/8" 4 into 1 with a stinger. A LOT quieter and we did a 22 hour round trip through the mountains with no ill effects on the ears but that old time Buggy dual sound was gone! The power on the highway was virtually identical to what it was with the dual cannons but the idle and light throttle drivability was night and day better.

Oh, and the stinger was a tripping hazard in Mall parking lots.

When I changed out the engine to a type 4 I built this system. 1 1/2" primaries, has the dual look, nearly the same sound but smoother - more like a Subaru, idle and low end are awesome too! It talks to you at full throttle alright but not excessively loud and on the highway at cruise the wind is louder than the exhaust note.

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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

Now with all that said let me present a Buggy that breaks the rules. This one was at the last VW event I attended a few weeks ago. An older gentleman (in his 80s?) drove this Buggy in from the next town. He calls it his Lumber-gini, he built it 47 years ago. He shortened the pan 14.5" with the intension to put a Manx kit on it but never did scrape the cash together to buy one so after a few years he built this plywood body and has driven it extensively all over Western Canada on and off road. The present engine is a 1641 DP, stock carb and intake with dual cannons. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it until the end of the show when we started our cars up and toured the town. The engine in this Buggy was the best running, nicest idling of all that I heard run at the show and it was not loud! I should have asked more questions!

It ran 200% better than this impressive high dollar Baha which by the way was also a stock cam, stock carb 1641 DP engine with a merged 4 into 1 header!

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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[EVfun]

I have wondered about a dual exhaust that was opposite tuned from the intake. In other words, combine 2 and 3 in one side and 1 and 4 on the other. I wonder if that would tame the bad idle and low end when dual 1 barrel carbs are paired with dune buggy dual exhaust.

I think there was an old Thunderbird exhaust for the Bug built like that. Maybe it sounds more like a Subaru.
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[oprn]

That would still put adjacent cylinders in the firing order together so I don't think it would change anything. You would still have one pulse weaker than the other on each carb.

Someone a while back posted a picture of the old thunderbird exhaust and it was timed that way but the saving grace with it was that it has very long primaries. It paired the cylinders kitty corner to each other which still gives a leading and lagging cylinder. The only way to get even firing twin exhaust is to pair the fronts together and the backs together.

Not a very easy thing to do in the confines of a rear engine vehicle. That, I am convinced is why there are no systems available commercially built like that.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[EVfun]

[oprn]

[volvofan94]

I appreciate everyone's comments on the thread! Gives me some more to think about with my build.

Obviously performance shouldn't suffer for looks, it may be better to look at a better exhaust option than the dual cannons considering how I have my engine setup today with the dual single barrel carbs. Currently the engine runs on my start stand with J tubes and a Monza Pace Setter dual exhaust - sounds pretty good and responsive when revving the engine, but I haven't heard it while driving yet.

I should have mentioned the engine does have twin port cylinder heads on it too, sorry about that.

Has anyone heard an engine run with EMPI's Power Pipes (18-1047) and the muffler inserts installed? I'm thinking that may be a better fit for the carburetor setup I have today. Else, a custom exhaust may be the way to go.

[oprn]

I love the look of the 4 power pipes! That to me is the ultimate in good looks for a Buggy. What they sound like - loud I expect but maybe with baffles...

As for performance, there will be no scavenging effect between cylinders for sure but there may be a point in the RPM range that they favor. Just like a single cylinder motorcycle engine does. I certainly would not expect them to suck the bottom end out of the torque curve like the dual cannons do.

I wonder if anyone out there has tried them?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[EVfun]

[Luftwagen 2180]

The four "power pipes" have intrigued me also. I've never seen any posts on them though. My engine was built for an aircraft application and I've noticed that they usually just have 4 short pipes and no muffler of any sort. I suppose noise at 4000 feet isn't a concern. Seems that the power pipes would be a way to meet my neighbors, but not in a good way. Not sure how it would sound or work with the glass pack inserts either.

[Hot Air]

Dual cannons with motorcycle mufflers..sounds great too.
Sad face dont have this buggy any more

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73' Bug
85' Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2