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3crispies Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2019 Posts: 126 Location: Cambs UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:00 am Post subject: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Rebuilt our current 1600 sp a few years ago although it has a few upgrades (34 icts, leccy ign) it never seems to move like I expected. So I have a good 1600 engine from our late bay that I want to upgrade, without machine work and using 34icts what cam for just doing 0-50mph is recommended, will I need to go HD springs. Was thinking of using our mahle 1600 b & ps as dont want thin wall with the chance of warping (wet/damp weather). Could I take it somewhere to alter compression ratio maybe.
Plan is upgrade to ecu wasted spark set up for ignition only, cb throttle linkage reuse, oem twin webers, C25 cam and better flowing exhaust and sell 1600sp engine turnkey.
Dont want to go down of route of machining thats why originally I opted for s/p for durability but may replace oem exhaust look which we prefer to a vintage speed oem appearance.
My engine skills are very basic so please be nice !!
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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H.P is in the Heads, go dual ports , add a pair of 40 IDF's a nice header and you'll be Happy I would not waste my time with S.P heads and single throat carbs! _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12714 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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If it's a '71/'72 Bus engine it will already have dual ports heads. That is worth 3 HP in stock form. VW got 66 HP out of dual single carbs on the type 3 engine. The crank trigger ignition will net you some drivability and maybe a couple mpg but little in the power department over stock ignition. The cam change without any change to stock heads might be worth 3 HP but expect to loose a bit on the low end. Maybe a HP or two with the exhaust. I'm thinking 68 to 70 HP? Your current one I would guess is giving you 60 HP now.
I guess what I am getting at is your total power gain is going to be very modest. You need to decide if it is worth the $$ spent.
Oh! And as for the no machining thing... good luck with that! I have rebuilt a number of these engines over the years and have yet to find a used type 1 engine that did not need an align bore. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15303 Location: Deep in the 405
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31362 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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3crispies wrote: |
I have a good 1600 engine from our late bay that I want to upgrade |
oprn wrote: |
If it's a '71/'72 Bus engine it will already have dual ports heads. |
1970 Bus would've originally been 1600cc single port.
1971 Bus would've originally been 1600cc dual port.
1972 Bus would've originally been Type 4 engine. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1245 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Cusser wrote: |
3crispies wrote: |
I have a good 1600 engine from our late bay that I want to upgrade |
oprn wrote: |
If it's a '71/'72 Bus engine it will already have dual ports heads. |
1970 Bus would've originally been 1600cc single port.
1971 Bus would've originally been 1600cc dual port.
1972 Bus would've originally been Type 4 engine. |
Not in the UK, Type-4 was an option. we could still get 1600's right to the end of production and the vast majority of UK buses were 1600 powered. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31362 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Zed999 wrote: |
Not in the UK, Type-4 was an option. we could still get 1600's right to the end of production and the vast majority of UK buses were 1600 powered. |
Well, forgive me - I didn't know where "Cambs" is.
By the way - I've run 1835cc DP engine since 1976, and love it. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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3crispies Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2019 Posts: 126 Location: Cambs UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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yeah agreed suppose I was trying to do everything, if I go 1776cc AA-mahle cast or are forged really that much better, stock cooling/sump/rockers ? |
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3crispies Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2019 Posts: 126 Location: Cambs UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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madmike wrote: |
H.P is in the Heads, go dual ports , add a pair of 40 IDF's a nice header and you'll be Happy I would not waste my time with S.P heads and single throat carbs! |
yeah sorry heads are AA dual ports already |
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3crispies Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2019 Posts: 126 Location: Cambs UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Cusser wrote: |
3crispies wrote: |
I have a good 1600 engine from our late bay that I want to upgrade |
oprn wrote: |
If it's a '71/'72 Bus engine it will already have dual ports heads. |
1970 Bus would've originally been 1600cc single port.
1971 Bus would've originally been 1600cc dual port.
1972 Bus would've originally been Type 4 engine. |
what cam or not really worth the money ? : |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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That C25 cam that you suggested will work _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:26 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Read all you can about different builds here on the Samba and then research parts availability and cost. It won't take long to get a grip on the possibilities. _________________ '73 super. |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1245 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine upgrade |
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Cusser wrote: |
Zed999 wrote: |
Not in the UK, Type-4 was an option. we could still get 1600's right to the end of production and the vast majority of UK buses were 1600 powered. |
Well, forgive me - I didn't know where "Cambs" is.
By the way - I've run 1835cc DP engine since 1976, and love it. |
You are forgiven. lol
You lucky Americans seem to have got the best of the best as standard, so many deluxe buses, type-4 engines etc. All these things were options here and the import tax was so great in the 70's that most people went for a very basic model instead. Many of our campers were stock panel vans converted from new in the UK purely because the import tax was far less on commercial vehicles. Horrible things TBH but £ rules. |
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