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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
Here are three options for removing/installing the rear axle nut, in order of easy of use:
[list]
2) Standard torque wrench rated to 250ft-lbs or more. These are expensive but you can rent them at little to no cost. There is the need to physically apply 100-200lbs of pressure at the end of the wrench depending on its length. As you apply this you need to make sure the socket doesn't slip off the end of the nut. Oh, and the cost of the 36mm socket must be taken into consideration. Here the torque is applied in a relatively controlled manner but how much control do you have when you are pressing down on a torque wrench with nearly all your weight? |
I would NOT use a torque wrench to loosen ANYTHING, just for tightening.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| I would NOT use a torque wrench to loosen ANYTHING, just for tightening. |
Excellent point. 
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 2668
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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| Gitchigumi wrote: |
| Viking, you actually use a torque wrench with it. I use my 3/8" drive set to 25lbs. TM multiplies torque by 10 equals the 250lbs you need for the axel nuts for example. |
I know exactly how the tool works and the mathematics in using it.
My question is whether there is any major discrepancy between its accuracy versus the straight out 250 ft-lb+ torque wrench? Perhaps no-one has tried.
Whilst you think that it is a simple calculation of 10 x 25 ft-lbs = 250 ft-lbs this assumes there is no distortion between the gears and no binding of the gears so that the 10 times rules is exact. Especially for a rental tool that gets treated, how?
Given how poorly torque wrenches are treated and seemingly never checked for calibration you wonder if there is any issue.
I don't think for one minute that only having 200 ft-lbs or 300 ft-lbs will make much difference but it is just an interesting investigation. I think it is a great tool and certainly makes life easier. They were using wooden pulley blocks many, many centuries ago to provide mechanical advantage so the physics is not new.
Finally when you see someone jumping on a breaker bar 2 feet from the end with 125 lbs in body weight you can see how someone can overtighten the nut. You don't jump. The force to be applied is a static "stand there on it" gravitational force. There will be a point of overtightening which will cause irreversible stretch of the threads of the axle or the nut which will cause it to loosen up or even fracture over time. Ditto with using huge air operated rattle guns to tighten them so hard "that these suckers will never come loose again!"
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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For at least one of my axle nuts, tightening it to 217ft-lbs was just enough so that the cotter pin no longer fit into the slot in the nut. The hole was not aligned. The options are to add a shim below the nut (I didn't have one the correct size) or tighten the nut further until the next cotter pin hole lined up with a slot in the nut.
Knowing when you are exactly at 217ft-lbs is often not as important as knowing you are at least there and then keep tightening until the hole lines up with a slot. In this case, use the torque wrench to get you to "around" 217ft-lbs, then replace it with a 3/4" breaker bar (or the Torque Buddy) and continue to tighten until one of the holes lines up so you can insert the large cotter pin.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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Whenever I used my Torquemeister knock-off, I would tighten it to achieve 253 ft. lbs (my Bug had an IRS transmission with CV joints), and I never had a nut--whether gland, or axel--loosen up on me, nor did I ever damage the threads. So, from experience, I can safely say that this tool is pretty darn accurate when they say it delivers 9 ft. lbs. to 1.
It certainly beats standing two feet from center on a cheater, and finding the person standing to be somewhere close to 126 pounds.
This tool was the finest tool investment I ever made, hands down. Also, I bought mine back when the were much cheaper; but, if I hadn't bought one years ago, I'd pay the going price today, knowing what the tool can do.
Tim
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Richard O'Brien |
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polypetalous
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2021
Posts: 110
Location: Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Torque multiplier |
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As stated the "Torque Dude" is currently ~$113 on eBay...
I hated to spend the money for this tool, but sure glad I did.
Before even attempting my rear wheel nuts I KNEW that the previous mechanic just impact wrenched everything to hell +100...
Ultimately it took BOTH the Torque Multiplier tool AND heat for me to remove the nuts... and it was dang scary (kinda).
I woulda fought those nuts FOREVER without the torque tool and probably woulda gotten pretty darn sketchy using other means.
Definitely a must have tool for VW owner, IMO.
Ben |
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