Reverting back to a 1500

[sb001]

My 69 with solid deck lid has a replacement 1600 SP. Sometimes it gets fairly nitpicky esp in summer, this is probably due to lack of cooling air since when VW went to the 1600 in 1970 they started putting vents in the deck lid. I don't want to change the deck lid to a 70 model I like the 69 solid deck lid look. Any way to induct more air into the engine bay without the "tennis ball" trick etc? Or do I just need to go back to a 1500?
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[Lingwendil]

You can cut a 2" hole in the firewall tin above the bellhousing on the opposite side of the oil cooler exhaust would be on a doghouse setup. this will let in additional air, and you can do it to an aftermarket piece of tin to avoid modifying an OEM piece. I've seen this done with some mesh to prevent leaves and debris from coming in. If you do it right it will be not noticeable unless you go out of your way to look for it.

Another option is to cut some holes under the license plate, but I'm assuming you're not open to modifying the decklid. I have a spare later lid I'm going to cut for some added air on my 1776 in my 73 super, but I also run IDFs and 9-1 compression, and have 110 degree California summers to play with while commuting to work in heavy traffic

Are you still running the inline oil cooler, or the 71 and later doghouse style? If not I would suggest swapping to the later shroud, I can't remember what you run. I really like the doghouse setup on a single port.


Personally the hole in the firewall tin may be the most "stealth" solution, and if you run a doghouse shroud should work fairly well.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[radstude]

I had a friend put 6 1 1/4" holes behind the license plate, the holes could not be seen. He had then punch thru with a press, with a radius edge. It worked for him, his engine ran much cooler after that was done. I think it was 1971 or 72, Volkswagen installed a vent door behind the license plate.
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1967 VW Fastback (Past)
1971 VW Bug (Past)
1975 VW Bus (Past)
2002 VW Mexican Bug 1600i

[sb001]

Thanks -
Lingwendil I am running non-doghouse inline oil cooler setup, but I am not adverse to switching to the doghouse shroud & cooler.
I guess I'd be cutting a hole right where the pill--shaped indent is?

What is that indentation for anyway?
Yes I'd prefer to not modify the deck lid - if that were the case I'd probably just go ahead and get a 70 deck lid.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[Lingwendil]

I think the indentation is just for stiffening, i bet cutting out that inner shape of the stamping may work.

If you have a source for the stock doghouse and the associated bits its a great upgrade with literally zero downsides, if you were local I'd give you one of the several taking up space in my garage

We converted to the doghouse setup on the rebuilt 1600 that was in my ex's 69 manual, and it dropped the oil temp 15-20 degrees without doing anything else.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[sb001]

[Lingwendil]

you need the fan shroud, the bigger matching late fan, the two oil cooler exhaust tin pieces, the oil cooler itself, the offset adapter mount for the cooler, and the oil cooler conversion seals.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[sb001]

[TDCTDI]

The doghouse shroud & larger fan were the reason for the additional deck lid vents. Installing these without additional fresh air intake vents causes overheating and/or air starvation (intake & cooling) at higher RPM. Pulling air from the firewall side of the tin, where the doghouse shroud is dumping preheated air is not ideal either.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[sb001]

[TDCTDI]

The 1600, the doghouse shroud, & the extra fresh air vents were all improvements & natural progressions, designed by engineers at VW to make their product better.

The only real difference between the 1500 & the 1600, was piston diameter, so changing from one to the other, doesn’t really accomplish anything. Getting the oil cooler out of the flow of cooling air to #3 & #4 did a lot in the reliability. This requires the larger fan, which in turn, requires more air flow into the engine compartment.

Perhaps you could source a louvered deck lid, or smooth deck lid that you don’t mind modifying, paint to match & swap it back to original as you desire.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[sb001]

[Cusser]

Engine lid standoffs https://www.jbugs.com/product/9141.html

_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[sb001]

[67rustavenger]

Is this your current engine in your car? Or at least the fan shroud that you are running?

If so. It already appears that you have a doghouse fan shroud.
Is there an oil cooler in the doghouse?

Answer these two questions, and we can talk further on ducting your oil cooler effluent (exhaust) out of the engine compartment.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[viiking]

If you plan on hammering the car on the freeway then you need to do something.

But if you drive it sedately it won't be a problem. Given that it is a 53 year old car, it probably deserves to be driven like this.

I would first start with ensuring that all the cooling systems is correct. Hoses in place, fan belt not slipping, pulley the correct size, tins in place, engine seals in place etc.

There is an argument that a slight increase in piston size means more horsepower but does not necessarily mean more heat if the engine is not labouring as much. It is a fine balance.

I have upgraded my 1500 to 1600 and have no intention of changing the decklid. I'm like you, car bought by my father since new and I don't want to change it. If I could have found 1500 pistons I would have used those but they basically are unobtanium.

I have concentrated on getting all the other things right but then again I will not drive it too hard more out of caution that it is so fragile in an accident even against the cheapest and much heavier mini-cars of today not to mention the behemoths that are now racing around on our streets.

I would at least get one of the dipstick mounted temperature probes to see if you even have a problem!
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[sb001]

[hulbyw]

I doubt going back to a 1500 would achieve anything. I have run a 1641 in my 1968 Beetle with all stock cooler and tinware without overheating issues for over 30 years. I do have an oil temp gauge to monitor

[67rustavenger]

Then a 1500 vs 1600 really won't make a difference.
Plus finding 1500 pistons are nearly impossible.

I'm running a 1600 SP in my 67. It get's a little hot on excessive heat days here.
You have more hot days than we do here.
A month ago, on a 90°f evening, I was seeing 220°+ on the temp gauge.
This was crossing over a rather steep hill range in the way to a race track.

While racing, yes with the mighty 1600sp. I never saw engine temps over 210°.

Last weekend, I took the same route to the race track on another 90°F evening.
This time the engine ran at 210° over the hill range.
The difference? The tennis ball under the decklid latch.
I get that you don't like the idea. But it does work.

The only way you are going to get the engine to cool better is to, run a later decklid, add ventilation behind your license plate, run stand offs, or add a oil cooler under the car. Not my favorite idea for a stock bodied beetle.
Oh yeah, forgot one, vent the rear firewall tin as suggested above.

Sorry I can't be of anymore help. But I feel you pain on the engine heat issue.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[goober]

If you're running an OEM generator/pulley and an OEM crank pulley this might be an inexpensive experiment.

I use a Dayco GPL Premiuum V-belt # L335 (9RL890) as my fan belt. It rides the very bottom of my generator pulley groove spinning my generator and fan a little faster.

My generator produces sooner while my fan pushes a little more air. Nothing dramatic but I feel it helps with cooling.