Timing problems with new (unrestored) 73 Super Beetle

[Superbj]

New purchase, new hobby. First adjusted the valves & points, both were off, and she runs much better. Despite not necessarily or knowing if it needed it, I am going through the process of tuning it so next was set the timing. This did not work well; I have a 009 cap so I did it 7.5 degrees off FDC like the instructions go and she ran way worse. Tried adjusting it several times and no luck. I ended up adjusting the Distributor until it ran the best I could manage. So basically I am not able to perform a proper timing which is not something I wish to resolve to. Also, since I was doing this in order I have not yet adjusted the carburetor or plug gaps, so it is possible this is a factor but I thought it best for a rookie like me to be methodical in understanding the changes to my adjustments one by one. Thoughts and guidance would be helpful. My next step was to at least check the plugs and adjust the carburetor, perhaps then come back to timing to see if it works then?

[ashman40]

Before you set the timing you must first adjust the point gap/dwell. Stock point gap is 0.016" (max) or 44~50deg dwell (new points). Changing the gap/dwell directly impacts timing so it must be done before you attempt to set timing.

Adjust the timing based on the model of the distributor installed. There is a high possibility you are no longer running the distributor that the car left the factory with so don't assume the stock timing is correct until you confirm the model of your distributor.
Many late model distributor used the same distributor cap as the OO9, but this does not mean you have an OO9 distributor nor should you set your timing based on 7.5BTDC. Look for the make/model number stamped into the body of the distributor. OE distributor will usually have VW as well as Bosch part numbers stamped into the body.

Look these numbers up here to find the specs for parts and tuning.

If you have a distributor with a mechanical advance (aka centrifugal advance) you can opt to set the max total advance (initial + mechanical) so it maxes out to 28-32BTDC. This is done with all vacuum advance hoses disconnected and plugged. This is the max safe timing advance based on rpm (mechanical advance). Rev the engine until the timing no longer advances and set it to 28BTDC. You can tweak it up a few degrees from there. If it starts to ping/pre-ignite under load you can back it down.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Superbj]

Thanks I'll do a little more research on the distributor first, and come back to this. It does not have the vacuum assist, it has JF4 prominently stamped (if that helps). Also, I did set the valve and point gaps first, and those weeks certainly helped. Lastly, based on what I have read so far I may need to finish the process with a carb adjustment. Meaning, if I set timing correctly she still may run rough until I adjust the carburetor to the new settings. Does that sound right?

[OTTO 1303]

[Superbj]

Distributor is German made 009 with stamped 0 231 178 009. So I think these combined with the 34Pict/3 carburetor is the timing I should target. Generally available information I believe says the 7.5 advance, but I also read this is not consistent between individual distributors. So I guess that boils down to this question. Should I set the timing 'by the book' with the advance even though it runs rough, then immediately adjust the carburetor to get the engine running properly and even things out? Or, do I set the timing to the way the engine likes it the best first (independently), and not assume the follow-on carburetor adjustment will fix imperfections?

[jinx758]

@superbj

Set timing for distributor model.
Test & ensure vacuum canister is working.

Gap points
Set timing
Set idle speed & air/fuel (back, forth-back, forth)
... after fully warmed

My 1776cc, Engle 110 prefers a tiny bit more point gap. Yours will vary.

Remember - point gap affects timing. There is a sweet spot & will change as points wear down (typically).

Good luck ... stay safe

jinx
_________________
" It's not valuable unless you learn something from an experience. " Henry Ford

It's not unlike the same difference

You can't push a rope


VALVES (cold)
POINTS
TIMING
CARB (fully warmed engine)

SCRAPE ALL GROUNDS

My Craigslist rescued 100 footer :
1971 Standard Bug
1776cc dual port
034 distributor
38mm EGAS Carburetor

[Pruneman99]

You want to set the timing at full advance, not idle. So rev the engine until the distributor is at full advance. Set the timing at 28-30 degrees BTDC. Let the idle timing fall wherever it falls.

[ashman40]

[Superbj]

I decided to order an SVDA distributor for the proper pairing with carb, I am also going to be putting in new plugs (AC Delco were installed) and a new coil (old unlabeled black one). With these new parts I will run through the process again knowing I have the right components. Great information on this forum, I really appreciate the guidance.

[Xevin]

Where did you order the distributor from? Sparxwerks or other? Which SVDA did you order? What exact brand of 34-3 carburetor do you have? What are the numbers on the base of carburetor? Did you order a resin filled or an oil filled coil?
What timing marks do you have on your crankshaft pulley?
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[Cusser]

[Superbj]

I have not pushed the 'order' button yet, but based on availability it looks like the Petronix SVDA (D186504) would be suitable choice for distributor. I have the Solex 34Pict3 carburetor, is there something more specific than that? Unless I am missing something this is a good pairing. I also ordered a Bosch 3.0 ohm coil.

[Superbj]

Sorry I missed a couple of other details per the questions. In addition to Solex,34Pict3, the carb also says Made in Germany. On the bottom right there are numbers B2 236. On the coil I ordered, it was the Bosch expoxy filled that says compatible with Petronix

[67rustavenger]

[Superbj]

Gosh, I did order the coil but it says 'backordered' until 2023 so I guess I am back to square one as far as what to purchase.

[Xevin]

[Xevin]

Here is a link to the different pulleys.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672

Carburetor and distributor information.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185095
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[Superbj]

I am going to go for the OEM parts the best I can. Per the advice from this board I am contacting Bill at Sparxwerks for a rebuilt Bosch distributor and Bus Depot for a Blue Coil. When I bought the bug the old original parts that were replaced were in the trunk. I have the original Distributor which should ensure i get the right one, and per the website Bill may be able to use this for another rebuild.

[Xevin]

Without a picture of your engine compartment I’m not sure what the PO may have done.
Here is a picture of my 74 if you need to reference. Yours should look the same except for that silly aftermarket chrome pulley nut
You will need a “Shepherds Crook” that’s the metal pipe connected to the vacuum can with rubber hose. It keeps fuel from dripping from the carb to the vacuum can eating away the rubber diaphragm. You can make a loop up top near the carb with just the hose but looks jank. Hopefully the PO left you the crook in the box of parts. Easy to make one if you need. Hell I might have an extra.

Edit: The coil is the orginal from 1974. Works fine. I have a blue coil in there currently and will switch it out after I touch up the black paint.
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[PatterBon]

I had a similar problem with my beetle when I started working on it 14 years ago on my 1973 standard (I was 15 so bear with me).
It had a Brosol H30/31 carburetor and a 009 centrifugal advanced distributor. With that combo, timing was set to 32° full advanced and idle timing just sat where it sat.
I later exchanged the carburetor for a German 34-3 with a 410-1 code and paired it with an Aircooled.net 034 distributor with points and then set the timing to 7.5° BTDC at idle with the carb plugged and the car has been a daily driver with over 100,000 miles without issue. Going from sea level in Seattle to 6,000ft in Colorado, now to 110° and 2,000ft in Central Texas.
Finding the right pair for carb and distributor is imperative for a happy car.

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