Is this 1942 VW KDF original?

[Nick_kafer]

Hello guys my name is Nick and i am a VW enthusiast from Greece. I think that people in this forum has the knowledge to help with a disagreement i had. Before a few days i show a post on the Facebook from a Greek guy with some photos of an old VW Beetle and he was telling us that he bought it recently and it's an original 1942 VW Kdf with all it's German documents, all Greek documents, photos from the car the first day that came in Greece, a Zertifikat that proofs it's an original 1942 Kdf and it worths 450.000 Euros. I looked carefully the photos he posted and after a little research i found on Youtube the video below that shows the condition of the supposed Kdf before and after the rebuilt . Then i answered to the post of that guy, i said that his "Kdf" has a lot of mistakes and several spare parts from later VW Beetle models. Also i told him that i doubt that his Beetle is an original Kdf and i think it's a Split about 1950s. Additionally i asked him to show me the sparkarte, the Greek documents, the Zertifikat, the Vin number of the chassis and the Vin number of the body that proofs it's an original Kdf. First he said that he send every document he had to Volkswagen to change from the documents the previous owners name with his name and when i asked him "Ok didn't you keep any photos of these documents with previous owners name?" he refused to show the documents, the Vin number from chassis and the body and after a long conversation suddenly he blocked me. My personal opinion is that his beetle is actually a Split about 1950s model which was converted to a replica Kdf. Because i am not a VW specialist and i don't know every detail of Kdf or other VW WW2 vehicles i would appreciate if you take a look at the video and the photos and help me make a safe conclusion to my reflection.

The video that i am refering:


Link

[Nick_kafer]

And some photos of this beetle

[volksair]

There is so much about this car that is not 1942, and the list is very long.

[Blue Baron]

The more appropriate question is, what about this car would indicate it is a 1942?

The car clearly appears to be 1949-1952.

I don't understand why someone has to "wehrmachtize" a later split, unless they have some fascination with the third reich. (Re-enactors maybe?)
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.

Heinz Nordhoff

[sgmalt46]

your correct nick the greek. total fake . and not even a good one.
looks like it started out a 50-52 deluxe . should of kept it that way.
450.000 euro's? don't think so. not a thing 42 about it.
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG

[pastellgreen]

The chassis number would be interesting....
Back in the days I wrote birth certifiactes, we had several requests with faked KDF chassis numbers. Often they took the chassis number for a Kübel they had, and changed the prefix "2" to "1". But this is not the way, the chassis numbers have been composed and so they always have been wrong. From the known lists, it is not possible to "calculate" chassis numbers to create another KDF.

[finster]

...wasn't this one owned by Rommel?

sent the docs to vw to get the owner name updated - what even the sparkarte!

quality welding too, mind you there was a war on!

the rope wrapped around the bumper was the main giveaway for me...shame as it looked like a nice deluxe car originally
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[Nick_kafer]

Thanks guys for your replies, so if I understand correctly it's a 1949-52 split that has been made badly into a Kdf replica. But why does it have a Vin number on chassis on the pictures in front of the shifter?
Pastellgreen maybe could you tell us more about Vin details?

Volksair, Blue Baron, sgmalt46 and anyone else who knows could tell me more about the details of an original Kdf because i would like to learn more about Kdf?

I also can't understand why they "wehrmachtize" a later split and they want to convince us that is original.

Yes Finster you are right it was the one owned by Rommel, but you forgot to say that Hitler drive it fist and then he delivered it to Rommel 😂
I think that Volkswagen kept a lot of unused sparkarte just for cases like this one, the quality of welding is like that because it's made from original 1942 machines and the rope around the bumper i think it's an original rope made in 1939 and it was used in the duration of WW2 😝😝

[sgmalt46]

you can pickup a book a book or 2 . the printed page is more accurate than you can get on the internet a lot of the time. these are good one's .

_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG

[Blue Baron]

There are lots of resources and photos right here on The Samba to research what a KdF should look like. For instance, the trunk and gas tank are very different.

Early front aprons had no cable release, but rather latched, similar to the rear decklids.

Early cars also had decklids with the license plate area embossed.

You can also identify an early car by three ribs stamped beneath the rear window rather than just one.

This is just a quick spotter's guide. There's a whole science.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.

Heinz Nordhoff

[finster]

it's interesting that this is the second 'tell me about kdf details' in the last few weeks.
most replicators don't go to the trouble of modding the fuel tank/spare wheel area. a good gallery of photos of an original kdf type 60 is here
https://ww2vw.com/galleries/kdf-beetle-type-60l/

oh, and that vw luftschutz helmet is fake too.
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[Nick_kafer]

Sgmalt46 thanks for the books i will try to find one and when i will finish it i will go to an other.

Blue Baron thanks for the quick lesson, i know that it's a lot of details you have to know about these cars but now i will recognise the bad replicas.

Finster it's really interesting that i am the second person who asks info in a few weeks, we have to spread out our knowledge and make these guys with fake Kdf to say the truth because i am sure that one day in several years they will try to sell the replica as original and what if no-one knows how to recognize the fake from the original. Thanks for the site it was the first did and it helped me a lot to make this post and ask your opinion.
I think that the sparkarte could be fake also, i looked on Google and i found several replica.

[sgmalt46]

the samba is the best trusted place to look for vw knowledge.
better than google . I lot of knowledgeable folks here and
will be quick to call out incorrect info. there are many small details
on those early cars . the cartoon like illustration from blue baron is from
the garwood book car of the century volume one I believe. goes into
great detail on early cars. great source.
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG

[Nick_kafer]

Hello again guys one Greek guy told me that he knows this Kdf very well and it's an original Kdf on a chassis of a Kubelwagen. Also he says that Volkswagen certificated that it's an original Kdf on a Kubelwagen chassis that produced from his factory and also maybe this car is more rare from the common VW Kdfs.
Is that true?

[Blue Baron]

You already have your answer.

Volkswagen doesn't certify anything, but rather sends a certificate based on the chassis number that the owner provides to them.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.

Heinz Nordhoff

[sgmalt46]

kdf production cars 40-45 630 units
kubel/kdf (type 82E) 43-45 688 units
it does not matter ? it is neither .
time we put this to bed. getting pointless now.
it is not and never was a KDF . period.
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG

[EverettB]

[Nick_kafer]

Now i am absolutely sure this car is not an original Kdf and of course it's not a 1942 model. I asked many times for proofs, VW documents but they refuse to post them. My conversation with these guys leads to a dead end they are saying a lot of excuses like that the differences to this car from an original Kdf are because of they didn't had all the parts parts and they used some parts from later beetles. If they post any documents or proofs i will let you know, until then i think this post came to his end.
Thanks a lot for your time and your replies Blue Baron, Sgmalt46 and EverettB and everyone else answered to my post and gave me useful information.

[finster]

you've literally got a video of the conversion of a 1950 beetle into a kdf replica - that is all the evidence you need....
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[chrissev2]

If you look at the trunk/fuel tank area, there is no way that was ever a 1942 KDF car. There are no similarities at all. Someone would have had to weld on an entire 1950 front end including the windshield.

A quick look at the floor pan and tunnel underneath also would be a dead giveaway (if he has any pics of that). Also the entire rear section is wrong and is an early 1950 rear section, including the body work under the split window.

Clearly an early 1950 body.
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