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Prairie Dog Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2011 Posts: 16 Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:43 am Post subject: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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I fired up the AC on my 1988 Westfalia yesterday to keep the grandkids cool on the way back from an outing. It didn't take long for them to tell me that it was raining in the back of the van (passenger side). They thought it was hilarious but my heart sank at the prospect of the project ahead.
I checked the condensate drain tubes as soon as we got home and they were clear of debris and blockage. I removed the cross wall at the rear of the ceiling cabinet to try to get a better look. I also removed the rear speakers but can't find an explanation for the leak. I can't see if the drain lines are compromised or if there's a crack in the evaporator tray.
Is there anything else I should be looking for before trying to drop the rear ceiling cabinet to get at the evaporator tray? Is there a shortcut to the instructions in the Bentley manual for dropping the ceiling cabinet? It doesn't look like much fun.
The AC works great (relatively speaking). The refrigerant, condenser and dryer have been upgraded. I have a 2.5 Subaru engine from Vanaru and a Subaru AC compressor. I have to recharge the refrigerant every other year to keep the unit blowing cold.
Thanks for your help. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:57 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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Did you have the fan speed on high?
I noticed with my 86 that I rebuilt the A/C with kniwn goid drain pan and drain tubes that with the fan on high and the tray has water in it that the high speed fan would blow water out through the Evaporator coil along with the cold air.
Turn the speed down and the issue was fixed.
From the factory (or dealer installed) the Evaporator has a thin porous open cell foam rubber covering.
These have largely decayed into dust and plug up the coil.
It is thought that this foam rubber was a condensate catcher for those errant drops of water.
I had removed my rubber covering and did not reinstall it.
Then again, maybe your drain pan finally cracked.
The drain pan on my 90 was a mess with multiple cracks in it.
The drain pan is flimsy plastic that cannot hold the weight of the coil fir 30 years and eventually it sags and cracks when it does so.
New drain pans are unobtanium but I fixed and reinforced mine with great success.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7468 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:57 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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Dropping that cabinet is not a lot of fun because it's unwieldy and Westfalia made it more difficult than it should be. That said, start unfastening things and lower the cabinet. The hoses should be attached to the plastic tray. Hopefully it's just a matter of reconnecting the hose and reassembling.
Plastic saw horses helped hold the cabinet up when I was removing fasteners.
And then lowered it using one saw horse.
The Westy cabinet flaw is that the hoses run through a hole. Cutting the hole to a slot makes reassembly and future disassembly much easier.
A post on making slots out of the holes to simplify reinstallation.
davevickery wrote: |
If no one has had the AC cabinet out before like for AC service, you may want to cut slots in the cabinet where the AC lines go through the cabinet. With slots instead of holes, you can R&R cabinet more easily. Mine had already been done before I got in there. They glued the little pieces back in but I don't think they are visible.
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_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
Last edited by jimf909 on Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Silverghost500 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2018 Posts: 1087 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:02 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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I'd suggest checking for blockages in the lines first, especially where they exit the vehicle. Might be some little critter has built a nest in there to block.
If the lines are clear then there's something going on with the lines or the catch tray in the headbanger cabinet. _________________ 1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic
Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:04 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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The factory wrapped the evaporator core with a foam mesh that caught condensation off the core and kept it from getting sprayed on the rear passengers on humid days. After all these years, it has turned to dust. It is available, but not easy to reinstall. It’s available aftermarket. I have some leftover from my 90 if you can’t find it. I likely bought it from McMaster Carr. It wicks the moisture and deposits it in the tray. The dust has likely worked its way into the drain tubes as well. Big job ahead. _________________ ☮️ |
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Prairie Dog Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2011 Posts: 16 Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:39 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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Thanks for the great advice. Upon further examination, it appears that there is a break in the tray where the drain tube attaches to it on the passenger side. I will have to take out the ceiling cabinet to make repair the tray. I will ask for directions on how to make it water tight once I am able to get to it.
The Bentley manual tells me to first remove the storage shelf with curtain rail (76.7), the front bed board with mattress, and the vent covers to drop the cabinet. Will the evaporator come down with the cabinet, or are there other bolts that keep it in place?
I like of the idea of cutting a channel in the cabinet walls to make it easier to replace the drain tubes. Once I have it opened up, replacing the foam sounds like a good idea. There won't be a better time to have at it. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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When I did my 90 camper, I followed the manual. Quite a bit needs to be removed to access the evaporator. My 90 had the plenum that ran to the edge off the poptop opening. The cabinet surround comes out and leaves the evaporator core attached to the ceiling board. I was redoing my AC, so I had the side cabinet removed as well, so the details are fogged. Notching the surround is a big aid going back in. I also bought vinyl tube to replace the factory tubes to make everything more pliable. I swapped the duck bills from the original tubes to my new ones. _________________ ☮️ |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3097 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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Just did his EXACT thing yesterday
Prairie Dog wrote: |
The Bentley manual tells me to first remove the storage shelf with curtain rail (76.7), the front bed board with mattress, |
NO DOES NOT need to be removed.
Prairie Dog wrote: |
and the vent covers to drop the cabinet. |
If you mean the vents infront of the square cabinet, then yes, that assembly needs to be removed first
Prairie Dog wrote: |
Will the evaporator come down with the cabinet, or are there other bolts that keep it in place? |
if its is after 86, it will stay up (IDR your year as I write this). With the earlier version the evap is connected to the cabinet (Unless you modify it like I did on its own support plate so the cabinet is independent.
Prairie Dog wrote: |
replacing the foam sounds like a good idea. There won't be a better time to have at it. |
True...and it looks like a thin version of the evaporative cooler foam. Maybe you can find it locally. I've never had high blower spray water out but then again I live in dry air where evaporative coolers are abundant. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7468 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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This may be too much scope creep, but if you'd like more a/c airflow you might consider removing the a/c plenum (the grey plastic housing with the vents built in. Many folks, myself included, report never (rarely) using the high fan speed and generally only needing 1 or 2 due to increased airflow.
This thread includes a lot of debate but I know removing the plenum in my van helps us stay more comfortable.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424773
This is a '90 with the plenum removed and a new faceplate from Rhino Design.
FWIW, YMMV. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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1988M5 Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 674 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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jimf909 wrote: |
This may be too much scope creep, but if you'd like more a/c airflow you might consider removing the a/c plenum (the grey plastic housing with the vents built in. Many folks, myself included, report never (rarely) using the high fan speed and generally only needing 1 or 2 due to increased airflow.
This thread includes a lot of debate but I know removing the plenum in my van helps us stay more comfortable.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424773
This is a '90 with the plenum removed and a new faceplate from Rhino Design.
FWIW, YMMV. |
If Rhino designs made a similar piece with a male outlet to allow a hose to be installed to the front would be sweet. A flex-tube could be routed around the roof opening (chicane) and dumped on the front passengers or reinstalled into a front OEM AC set up. Downside of that is I might forget the brand of van I'm in with the lack of the emblem. Smiley face
Cheers,
BK _________________ 1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs. |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3097 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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1988M5 wrote: |
...If______ made a similar piece with a male outlet to allow a hose to be installed to the front would be sweet. A flex-tube could be routed around the roof opening (chicane) and dumped on the front passengers or reinstalled into a front OEM AC set up. Downside of that is I might forget the brand of van I'm in ....
BK |
Àla this?.... The jury is still out and I'll update as I have more time with it
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9900678#9900678
_________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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1988M5 Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 674 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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Sweet! My plan with the tin top is to open the roof but I love the AC on my face.
BK _________________ 1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs. |
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1988M5 Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 674 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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I really want to route that cold air into the front seats like it does now, but modify to twist around the new lay out with the open roof I'm proposing. _________________ 1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7468 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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1988M5 wrote: |
jimf909 wrote: |
This may be too much scope creep, but if you'd like more a/c airflow you might consider removing the a/c plenum (the grey plastic housing with the vents built in. Many folks, myself included, report never (rarely) using the high fan speed and generally only needing 1 or 2 due to increased airflow.
This thread includes a lot of debate but I know removing the plenum in my van helps us stay more comfortable.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424773
This is a '90 with the plenum removed and a new faceplate from Rhino Design.
FWIW, YMMV. |
If Rhino designs made a similar piece with a male outlet to allow a hose to be installed to the front would be sweet. A flex-tube could be routed around the roof opening (chicane) and dumped on the front passengers or reinstalled into a front OEM AC set up. Downside of that is I might forget the brand of van I'm in with the lack of the emblem. Smiley face
Cheers,
BK |
My guess is they would make it to your design. I mainly enjoy looking at their website but they appear to be ready to meet a customer's requirements. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:17 am Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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jimf909 wrote: |
1988M5 wrote: |
jimf909 wrote: |
This may be too much scope creep, but if you'd like more a/c airflow you might consider removing the a/c plenum (the grey plastic housing with the vents built in. Many folks, myself included, report never (rarely) using the high fan speed and generally only needing 1 or 2 due to increased airflow.
This thread includes a lot of debate but I know removing the plenum in my van helps us stay more comfortable.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424773
This is a '90 with the plenum removed and a new faceplate from Rhino Design.
FWIW, YMMV. |
If Rhino designs made a similar piece with a male outlet to allow a hose to be installed to the front would be sweet. A flex-tube could be routed around the roof opening (chicane) and dumped on the front passengers or reinstalled into a front OEM AC set up. Downside of that is I might forget the brand of van I'm in with the lack of the emblem. Smiley face
Cheers,
BK |
My guess is they would make it to your design. I mainly enjoy looking at their website but they appear to be ready to meet a customer's requirements. |
In my way of thinking, the Ram Air to the rear is not needed if you are using A/C. Block off the Ram air flow into them.
Why not tap the cold air flow to the front into the existing ram air ducts?
Once you get to the front seat area pipe the cold air into the tintop front distribution manifold.
I know that dobryan has plans to create a removable A/C duct ti span what will be his hightop roof cut opening.
I look forward to what he comes up with,
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4492 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:01 am Post subject: Re: AC Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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jimf909 wrote: |
The Westy cabinet flaw is that the hoses run through a hole. Cutting the hole to a slot makes reassembly and future disassembly much easier. |
This is the view to remember.
In addition to the importance of slotting those holes in the upper cabinet, you really need to hang the drip tray beneath the condenser if you want to simplify the reinstall. Use perforated metal plumber's tape to create a loop on the left and the right that the tray can rest in so that you will be free to raise and lower the cabinet independent of having to position the tray on the floor of that cabinet and then hook up those pesky drain hoses.
These two steps make the job immensely easier. By suspending the tray and slotting the cabinet holes, you can attach the hoses to the tray and that part of the job is done. Then you can reinstall the cabinet and you will no longer have the hose reattachment headache awaiting you. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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Prairie Dog Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2011 Posts: 16 Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:05 am Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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I followed the Bentley manual instructions yesterday and managed to drop the ceiling cabinet. The methods suggested for supporting the cabinet are greatly appreciated The evaporator tray looks to be in pretty good shape. I will clean it today and check it for leaks. The rubber in the bottom of the tray looks to be okay. There are two boards stapled to the bottom of the tray, which I will leave alone if there are not leaks. The drain tube on the passenger side was loose, so I think that is the main problem.
The biggest mistake I made (so far) is that I dropped the cabinet down too far before unplugging the resistors. Both of the plastic resistor brackets were cracked and brittle. One had been broken some time ago. The resistor was resting on the cabinet floor and had left impressive burn marks where it had come into contact with the wood. Yikes.
I ordered replacement resistor brackets from GoWesty.
I would like to replace the resistors but can't find them available from any of our best known parts suppliers.
I would like to replace the drain lines but have not found an online source for ordering 14mm hose.
There is little evidence of the foam that once supported the tray. I can see where there was some kind of double-sided gooey tape that helped keep everything in place.
I love the idea of eliminating the plenum and all the little vents with the Rhino Design face plate. I will check out their site. In really hot weather I spend half the trip adjusting the vents to direct as much cool air as possible to the front. The grandkids are always ready to move the vents in every conceivable direction.
Thanks again for all the help. |
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Mikesarge Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2008 Posts: 222 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: Re: A/C Leaking Condensate Inside Van |
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1988M5 wrote: |
I really want to route that cold air into the front seats like it does now, but modify to twist around the new lay out with the open roof I'm proposing. |
I had similar grand plans when I installed a pop top on my van, but to be honest, the volume of air from the outlet in the back is nearly always more than enough. I had a buddy design and print a cover for the hole in back, and make a little shelf for the receiving hole in front, and I don’t often miss the air from the overhead vents. Only once recently when it was 100F+ and I was stuck in stop and go for a few hours.
Partial mock-up pic. The final is 1 piece and black, but I don’t have a pic in the gallery for some reason:
_________________ 1986 Syncro westfauxlia EJ22
1980 911 SC 3.1 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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