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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:31 pm Post subject: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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When I got my project, 67 beetle I took a look at what I'd need to replace and did a bit of reading and ordered a few things. I read on here somewhere to avoid klokkerhom. and In a chain I saw a few recs to buy metal panels from wolfsburg west. Well I bought two things to do metal repairs, a battery tray and a front apron, and they were both klokkerhom! I did the weld in of the tray and it did not fit well at all. I said ok that's fine its under carpet. Now I assessed the apron at the time and it looked like it would be fine but you don't really know until you try to fit it.
Now is time. I broke free all the spot welds and got my part out and fit it and at first I was pleased, it seemed to fit in nicely, then I noticed that the inside were the overlap occurs for the spot weld didn't line up. The new panel was not extending far enough back like the old panel, and I would not be able to plug weld into the same holes. A bit closer inspection and I realized a bigger issue. The joint at the top was a bit wide and the weather seal channel was not even close to lining up. I am a bit afraid that trying to pinch the parts in at the top is not going to work very well and I am going to end up with a mangled part.
I'm not sure why it is so hard to make new panels like the originals. Is there a vendor that produces a front apron that fits out of the box, that I can just weld back in place? |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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No. Not for your model year.
Last edited by pastellgreen on Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SLO-N-LO-69 Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2006 Posts: 622 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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All repro sheet metal needs trimming to fit properly. The closest you can get to og metal is the green stuff but their choices are limited.
That does not look like it is the right year. |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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You can get the best panels for splits, ovals and early square windows. All that stuff is from small companies that put much effort and love into tooling. Classicfap is only one example, there is Wolfparts, Mika Virtanen, ... but as I said before, not for this model year you have.
The reason, why there isn't any better material for the later beetles is simple, because at the end, they are not that worthy. |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 6985 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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pastellgreen wrote: |
...
The reason, why there isn't any better material for the later beetles is simple, because at the end, they are not that worthy. |
Uh oh, now you're going to incur the wrath of the '67 mafia. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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mukluk wrote: |
pastellgreen wrote: |
...
The reason, why there isn't any better material for the later beetles is simple, because at the end, they are not that worthy. |
Uh oh, now you're going to incur the wrath of the '67 mafia. |
I wouldn't reduce it on th '67 model year but for all model years from August 1964... A look into classified ads is enough to recognize what's going on. Not to mention, that of course someone has a special connection to a certain car or model and will put much money on this to restore it. It's all about enthusiasm, not erarning money. But the cost-benefit analysis is better for cars with a certain worth (financial, not individual). |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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I for one feel lucky any reproduction parts are available...
With the limited use of these cars on only bright sun shiny days...and tucked away during rain snow sleet... even the el chepo panels are fine.
..
Proper treating and care is key to the survival..
I used the cheapest no heat tube heater channels I could find on my Volksrod... that was 11 years ago..and they still are solid. Albeit it mainly sees nice weather days and no winter.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Depending on what sort of damage and impact it had before you removed the apron, the adjoining parts (spare tire well and inner fender well panels) could be distorted and giving you a poor picture of how it should be fitting together.
For example, in this picture, it looks like the spare tire well is too narrow, as if the fender wells were drawn in during the previous impact...it's not uncommon. So you may have to put a porto-power or some other expanding device in the spare tire well and spread the panels back out to fit the mounting flanges on the new apron.
Also, remove the green round-sling that you're using to suspend the vehicle, and reinstall the hood to see what the lines look like. If the edges of the hood overhang the fender wells/quarter panels, then they have been drawn in under impact and will have to be spread out again. You also may end up having to slice, dice, and piece back together on that apron to make it line up, that's not uncommon either. Virtanen sells a new seal channel for the apron if you need, but it's probably not worth mail/freight from Europe for a $26 part.
Another also: the apron may have to go a bit lower, hard to tell, I realize the lip underneath sits flush now. You might have to tack it in place in a couple places, put the hood latch on, and see where it lands and where things line up. You can't expect to drop it in place and start welding, the whole front end has been affected in one way or some other, not just that little apron you pulled off.
If you want to see evidence of just how much distortion can occur, which is difficult if not impossible to fix, just look at how many beautiful, shiny, painted, finished cars there are out there with a HUGE gap between the hood and the quarter panels, just inboard the turn signal area, that's also very common. |
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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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SLO-N-LO-69 wrote: |
All repro sheet metal needs trimming to fit properly. The closest you can get to og metal is the green stuff but their choices are limited.
That does not look like it is the right year. |
I got this one:
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111805591B
other than the bad fit spots it looks just like the original on the car.
What do you mean by green stuff? I haven't heard of that. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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aviator8 wrote: |
SLO-N-LO-69 wrote: |
All repro sheet metal needs trimming to fit properly. The closest you can get to og metal is the green stuff but their choices are limited.
That does not look like it is the right year. |
I got this one:
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111805591B
other than the bad fit spots it looks just like the original on the car.
What do you mean by green stuff? I haven't heard of that. |
This is green stuff: https://www.klassicfab.com/ |
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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Busstom wrote: |
Depending on what sort of damage and impact it had before you removed the apron, the adjoining parts (spare tire well and inner fender well panels) could be distorted and giving you a poor picture of how it should be fitting together.
For example, in this picture, it looks like the spare tire well is too narrow, as if the fender wells were drawn in during the previous impact...it's not uncommon. So you may have to put a porto-power or some other expanding device in the spare tire well and spread the panels back out to fit the mounting flanges on the new apron.
Also, remove the green round-sling that you're using to suspend the vehicle, and reinstall the hood to see what the lines look like. If the edges of the hood overhang the fender wells/quarter panels, then they have been drawn in under impact and will have to be spread out again. You also may end up having to slice, dice, and piece back together on that apron to make it line up, that's not uncommon either. Virtanen sells a new seal channel for the apron if you need, but it's probably not worth mail/freight from Europe for a $26 part.
Another also: the apron may have to go a bit lower, hard to tell, I realize the lip underneath sits flush now. You might have to tack it in place in a couple places, put the hood latch on, and see where it lands and where things line up. You can't expect to drop it in place and start welding, the whole front end has been affected in one way or some other, not just that little apron you pulled off.
If you want to see evidence of just how much distortion can occur, which is difficult if not impossible to fix, just look at how many beautiful, shiny, painted, finished cars there are out there with a HUGE gap between the hood and the quarter panels, just inboard the turn signal area, that's also very common. |
I was swapping to a new apron due to rust damage rather than wreck damage. I took profile lines into a template before pulling to match the curve of the old one. When I pop this one on it matches up nice with that profile. I was planning to put the hood on and make sure everything is lines up right before welding. I'm not so much worried about the bottom mismatch as I can cut and weld in a new piece to make up the gap there. I'm not the best welder so I want to keep my visible welds to a minimum. My biggest concern is the top of the clip where the the channel is wider than the OG, and you can tell the weatherstrip groove of the OG apron is tucked up tight to the edge and the new apron has it sitting a bit wide.
Im going to do some measurements this evening to see if it looks like there was any front end pinching.
Anyone have any experience with autocraft, I read good things about them, but that is 6X the price.
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Well that blows my theory out of the water!
It's an illusion, I'm sure, but your old apron laid over the new, it almost looks like the older one is even wider. |
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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Busstom wrote: |
Well that blows my theory out of the water!
It's an illusion, I'm sure, but your old apron laid over the new, it almost looks like the older one is even wider. |
Yeah I think it i just the lighting. Its definitely narrower and the channel is tight in on the profile edge. I am going to try to use some body tools to tweak the profile in this area. Not sure what I can do about the channel.
Frankly I's like to buy a piece that just works. |
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klroger Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2017 Posts: 149 Location: deep river, Ottawa Valley
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Check the Classifieds to see if anyone is offering an Original Take Off from a Parts car. It happens at times,,, Just thoughts, but you will get something that fits this way,,, Good Luck... _________________ I Didn't know what to do, So I Didn't do anything!!!! |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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aviator8 wrote: |
Anyone have any experience with autocraft, I read good things about them, but that is 6X the price. |
1. Please forgive me, I was wrong. Autocraft has the apron for this model year. They have not that much parts alltogether for beetles, I know them better for bus parts. But the front apron is on their list. And autocrraft parts are known for their perfect fit and pressings, this is good quality.
2. But what I'm missing here? You ask for good parts, OE style parts when available, and don't want to pay for it???
3. This is the reason why there are only a few OE quality panels for certain sections of the car. A beetle from 1964 onwards has not enough worth alltogether to spend it good but expensive quality parts.
4. The best way for you migt be to do what klroger suggests one post above. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:45 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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aviator, where did you get the "6X" number? This Samba advertiser has it for $272, not nearly 6X: http://aircooledtreasury.com/beetle/front-valance-two-finger-typ-1-60.html
And as 'pg' points out in his #2 above, you gotta pay to play. Do note two things, the Auto Craft picture does not look to have the seal channel welded on, so better to ask about that, AND, he (Aircooled Treasury) shows qty 0 on-hand, so that's probably a non-starter at the moment (what's new in these strange times???). |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:40 am Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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At least for all these good quality aprons rear and front, the seal channel is often missing and has to be spot welded after welding them to the body. |
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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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If I remember correctly I paid 50-60 or so for the panel, its been awhile. Ive seen other panels running between 270 and 300 plus on the high side, and everything in between down to 50 as the cheapest.. So 4x, 5x 6x, doesn't really matter. To be clear I am not questioning the cost per se. I don't want to pay that much more though to find out it has the same fitment issues, thus I was looking for some experience from others who may sat brand x fits very well with very little fitment issues, or I had to so x, y and z. If I can pay 275 for a panel that saves me from having to do alot of metalwork that takes me days its worth it. If I am paying that price and still have to do all that it isn't worth it because I have that now. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Copy that. Well, as far as what you have now and what Auto Craft is, I have a feeling Auto Craft is going to be thicker material, so that's already a bonus out of the gate. I've never purchased or used Auto Craft panels, but there are various threads in here (more specifically, in the Split Bus forums) discussing Auto Craft products.
And speaking purely from a fabrication standpoint, if it comes without the seal channel, it sure makes it a lot easier to modify the part and then install a new channel to your finished product after it's welded in place. But you sound pretty well-grounded in your thought processes, I'm just throwing out some more perspective based on my experience and what I've observed in these forums
This guy installs one: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
And this guy too: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711782&highlight=auto+craft |
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aviator8 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 120
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Are there any vendors producing good body parts that fit |
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Busstom wrote: |
Copy that. Well, as far as what you have now and what Auto Craft is, I have a feeling Auto Craft is going to be thicker material, so that's already a bonus out of the gate. I've never purchased or used Auto Craft panels, but there are various threads in here (more specifically, in the Split Bus forums) discussing Auto Craft products.
And speaking purely from a fabrication standpoint, if it comes without the seal channel, it sure makes it a lot easier to modify the part and then install a new channel to your finished product after it's welded in place. But you sound pretty well-grounded in your thought processes, I'm just throwing out some more perspective based on my experience and what I've observed in these forums
This guy installs one: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
And this guy too: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711782&highlight=auto+craft |
Thanks. I dont have a spot welder and it may be a bit tricky for me to get the j strip welded on with the autocraft version. I found this in the classifieds and and OG one. I have questions to both on a couple measurements
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2516293
This one looks like the j channel is seated in where the original is. |
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