Type 4 engine mounts

[CrazyTestPilot]

The type 4 engine in my sandrail is mounted to the transaxle with 4 bolts and has no other points of mounting. I stumbled across a youtube video where the guy was showing actuall engine mounts on his type 4. Obviously a sandrail is different than a car but load is load and VW included a support for the engine beyond the four tranny bolts. Would it be wise to add additional support to the engine via the frame or could this potentially create a problem between the engine and trans when the fame flex's under heavy load??. Thanks all.

[Wreck]

Is your trans solid mounted or stock rubber mounts ?

[raygreenwood]

In virtually all type 4 factory applications, the primary weight load is supported by a crossmember above the mounting joint of the engine to the transmission.

Some like the bus and very early 411 had a solid rubber mount on the transmission tailbone but this was not really weight bearing but for stability.

The bus, 411, 412 use a rear cross bar support with a pair of bonded rubber mounts. These also are mainly bumpers. They have a crush loading spec and are not really designed to take much weight load. The 914 has a rear cross bar (actually forward because it's mid engined) of some type.

So to sum up, in most type 4 applications the vast majority of load....of the entire drive train package is suspended by the middle crossmember where the engine is bolted to the trans. The end mounts (trans end and oil pump end) flex and float to arrest movement.

This was VERY important in the 411 and 412 because staking down the tail cone and putting any torsional load on the trans....whether it was the automatic and especially the type 4 four speed (004) .....caused both to flex and had internal wear issues.

I do not believe that the mid mount had anything to do with taking the load off the engine. It mainly about the transmission. Ray

[modok]

Mounting a bus trans from below is not convenient, and if the "frame horns" of the buggy are not very stiff then it may NOT even be worth doing that way.
I dealt with a chenowith that was that way, solved it using a later bus bellhousing with top mounting bosses.

Mounting the trans to the frame in many places so the engine/trans is trying to BE the frame can cause problems. Maybe bolts that loosen themselves or small wrecks can potentially warp or break the engine/trans. It's really better to have some slip joints or flexible mounts so they not fighting eachother.

[CrazyTestPilot]

The tranny is hard mounted and the engine hangs off the tranny. Just seems like that bell housing would give it up over the whoops or something but I guess it's tougher than it looks. thanks guys.

[Clatter]

The late bus had the powertrain mostly hanging from the top of the bellhousing as Ray describes.

It was located at the front of the trans,
but more importantly had a "mustache bar" at the rear of the motor.
In the bus, it was rubber mounted at the case and solid mounted to the body.
This because the bellhousing actually supported weight of the powertrain.

However,
If you look at the late type 3, a similar mustache bar supported the powertrain,
With only a reinforced mount at the front of the trans.
The 911 Porsche is very much the same.
This mustache bar is solid mounted at the engine case and rubber mounted at the ends to the body.

I'll offer that a bus mustache bar, solid mounted to the case and rubber (or solid) mounted at the ends is ideal.
Especially if used with both a good front mount -and- mounts at the bellhousing.

The Berg traction bar uses this approach.

So,
Yeah,
There's a whole lot of trouble from heavy off-road use just hanging a motor off the trans like a Beetle did stock.
From frame horns delaminating at the spot welds, to cases fretting at the trans mount interface, to the motor and trans coming clear out of the mounts and falling on the ground.

Depending upon how hard you rally,
You'll have to be mounting your powertrain accordingly.
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[Wreck]

It think it should be fine , maybe ask the question on the HBB Off road forum , ask how many people have damaged the engine /trans by not having a rear mount .
My gut feeling is that it would be fine .

[RWK]

Should be fine, I ran a T4 2.1L bus engine in a Baja with a swing RGB bus transaxle.
Ran it pretty hard, no issues.
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