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Tilda the Mustard Tigress
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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:46 pm    Post subject: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

FINALLY.. got her home!

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Engine Running: https://youtube.com/shorts/JnjxeMCbG6M?feature=share

the rust on the "load floor"? is the worst I could find, which for New England is "no rust" .

I guess this is technically a project or build but more like a tinker thread cuz i have been known to gets shipwrights disease.

There is a bit more "whiffs" of gas then Im comfortable with, could it be the runner seals? theres no gas puddling, or should I tackle the charcoal and evap cans?

I looked at that thread that seems to bypass the evap canister and vent it into the atmosphere, but isnt that still going to contribute to the gas smell?

First drive


Link


anything that jumps out right away as being problematic or wrong?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Nice car, and I love the name!

For the gas smell, check the vent tube that leads from the end of the filler nozzle in the fender back to the filler pipe. These are rubber, and after 50 years they get cracked and/or just fall apart. If that happens, your tank is just open to atmosphere all the time, so smelling fuel even inside the car is a regular occurrence. This was the case on mine when I bought it, and it was worse every time I filled it up and then made a left turn, since the fuel level was high enough then to slosh through that vent line and out through the break into the right front fender opening.

If this does prove to be the source of the fuel smell, then you can buy a replacement vent tube from ISP West, or I think Jim Adney makes a kit for the same purpose.

https://vwispwest.com/connection-hose-between-brearther-pipe-and-fuel-filler-neck-311201179b/
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

The color is that Texas Yellow?? alos what year? for your region that car is in great condition.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

RedSquare wrote:
Nice car, and I love the name!

For the gas smell, check the vent tube that leads from the end of the filler nozzle in the fender back to the filler pipe. These are rubber, and after 50 years they get cracked and/or just fall apart. If that happens, your tank is just open to atmosphere all the time, so smelling fuel even inside the car is a regular occurrence. This was the case on mine when I bought it, and it was worse every time I filled it up and then made a left turn, since the fuel level was high enough then to slosh through that vent line and out through the break into the right front fender opening.

If this does prove to be the source of the fuel smell, then you can buy a replacement vent tube from ISP West, or I think Jim Adney makes a kit for the same purpose.

https://vwispwest.com/connection-hose-between-brearther-pipe-and-fuel-filler-neck-311201179b/


Yes, that hose is a common source for a fuel smell. So is the larger filler neck hose, as you can't see any cracks in it since it's cloth covered. The kit from Jim includes the vent hose with a much better type of hose and includes everything you need to install it but the actual labor. You do need to tell him the year of your car, as some kits have more parts (hoses) than others. I'd also replace the large filler hose with one from ISP, as it's almost 50 years old now.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Thanks!

Its a 1973 that was originally texas yellow (the inside still is, more pix in gallery)


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PO said he had it repainted "sunshine yellow". It kinda looks like it? Id have preferred he left it the original color, but new englanders cant be choosers.

Ya, its really solid overall, especially for up here. Its the first VW ive owned that starts, runs, drives, stops, and doesnt have rust holes you could throw a dog through.



The decklid (?) is about the worst of it.

The guy who bought the buses and alot of the parts hoard has a few type 3s, and he brought me over a set of 73 seats, and a hatch. Hes going to cut me a decklid out , but for now im just going to wire brush it, ospho it, maybe Por Patch the pinholes and then masterseries it.

As Jetfxr69 told me last night "DONT tear it apart and render it unusuable..just drive it and have some fun"

It looks like the front where the jack goes and on the other side have been patched, but welded metal and not bondo.

ANYWYAS: GAS SMELL:

1. Who is Jim Adney and how do I contact him?

The bus buyer and his son looked it over and they agreed the kit and the fuel hiller should be replaced, but they think the smell is coming from the line going from the overflow to the evap canister, the one that kindof runs along the pan?

2. Could I use copper brake line to recreate that or is there a FLAPs replacement?

3. a few of the vacuum hoses on the engine werent on too well (one of the head vents?) and the long one that sits up agains the firewall is actually some sort of radiator hose, so I gotta change that too.


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4. then theres this funky one? is there an actual hose for that?


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5. So then i started poking around a bit, and I notices that this is missing. I think its an EGR thing, as it was once a california car


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that aircleaner elbow is also super skethcy

PHHT! As I was typing this out my wife starts hollering at me to come outside and I think one of the GSDs got loose...

nope! My Tilda has already begun to attract other squarebacks with her heavy gravity.


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Ive never seen a running squareback east of the mississipi with my own eyes and this one is lives like a quarter of a mile away


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Jim Adney is a long time VW guru and fixer guy. (Formal title). He sells parts here on the samba and also reconditions parts when you can’t get a suitable new one, which is pretty often any more. I had him rebuild an AAR and my original distributor, but he also works on dash clocks, master cylinders, and goodness knows what else. You can see his ads here on The Samba in the classifieds under the name jadney.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1807851

Or you can email him directly at [email protected]

He is a stand up guy and long time member of the VW community.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

RedSquare wrote:
Jim Adney is a long time VW guru and fixer guy. (Formal title).


MUST NOT FALL VICTIM TO SHIPWRIGHTS DISEASE!!!

Damn that dude has alot of cool stuff...

thanks, I just emailed him and hopefully once i get that kit and those gawdawful hoses in the engine bay fixed i wont get stinked out of my garage

However, as a point of note, Tilda does idle better than "Blue" (the red squareback that stopped by) It was originally blue
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
RedSquare wrote:
Jim Adney is a long time VW guru and fixer guy. (Formal title).


MUST NOT FALL VICTIM TO SHIPWRIGHTS DISEASE!!!

Damn that dude has alot of cool stuff...

thanks, I just emailed him and hopefully once i get that kit and those gawdawful hoses in the engine bay fixed i wont get stinked out of my garage

However, as a point of note, Tilda does idle better than "Blue" (the red squareback that stopped by) It was originally blue


Having met Jim in person, he's a stand up guy. He's also a former professor at U of W physics department, now retired. He rebuilds just about anything type 3 related, including master cylinders, calipers, speedometers, clocks, and fuel sending units and the fuel gauge unit, along with most of the FI parts (minus the harness (others do them) and injectors) but he does rebuild the factory Bosch fuel pump.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Jim emailed me today and im getting a kit from him and he gave me a few other pointers on what to check. (hes making me up some injector hoses too... the fuel lines were changed recently, but the ones for the actual FI arent visible with the air cleaner on it, from what I can tell)

When the guy brought by the red squareback, his is a 70, and the FI on that looks Waaaaay less complicated.

But Im definitely going to do the fuel filler hose and gaskety thing too.

I suspect the stink is multifactoral, and one place might be the evap hard line along the pan.

Jim had said its kindof a project to try and redo that, but that is one thing I am good at is making weird stuff work.

I can, for now, just do it over the top as his kit does, and "for the winter" redo the whole thing as I found this picture on the samba

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and it kindof makes sense to me how it all goes together.

He had said bending the copper/nickel brake line to recreate the factory line "could" be done, its just time intensive.

this beetle thread kinda covers alot of it:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713211&highlight=evap

if the concern with the type IIIs is the nasty stuff gets slung over the top of it and rots out the fender, is there a reason why you couldnt relocate it to the trunk like on a beetle or a thing?

I havent poked around enough on mine by It seems like it would make sense if thats a problem spot.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:


When the guy brought by the red squareback, his is a 70, and the FI on that looks Waaaaay less complicated.

But Im definitely going to do the fuel filler hose and gaskety thing too.

I suspect the stink is multifactoral, and one place might be the evap hard line along the pan.

Jim had said its kindof a project to try and redo that, but that is one thing I am good at is making weird stuff work.

I can, for now, just do it over the top as his kit does, and "for the winter" redo the whole thing as I found this picture on the samba

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and it kindof makes sense to me how it all goes together.

He had said bending the copper/nickel brake line to recreate the factory line "could" be done, its just time intensive.

this beetle thread kinda covers alot of it:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713211&highlight=evap

if the concern with the type IIIs is the nasty stuff gets slung over the top of it and rots out the fender, is there a reason why you couldnt relocate it to the trunk like on a beetle or a thing?

I havent poked around enough on mine by It seems like it would make sense if thats a problem spot.


Keep in mind that some of the later cars got a plastic line (tubing) that ran in the pan edge indent with clips to hold it in place. Not saying it can't be done in steel either. As for the canisters (yes plural), the front one usually rots out from collecting dirt and water on top, then while rusting the metal canister, the rust starts working on the inner trunk wall. One of the reasons VW didn't put the canister in the front trunk, is that in some colder climates these cars got a gas heater located in the trunk. Most didn't, but VW kept that space open for one anyway. The under the rear load floor canister usually had it's hoses fall off, and didn't really work like it should, as it was hidden out of sight, and never got changed. By now most of the charcoal is gone, and it's just an empty can.
That large hose you see in front of the plenum is a vent hose for the left (3-4 side) head, to pull air from the air cleaner. Same with the split hose on the right (1-2 head). They're part of the EVAP/PCV system, which was only used in 72 (California models) and 73 models to meet emissions standards. That hose shouldn't be a cause of the fuel smell, unless you have a leaking injector, and it's contaminating the oil. KTPhil has posted the later model hose layout, but it's also in the Brown Bentley manual. Earlier versions of it are in color, while later versions of the manual are done in black and white, so keep that in mind.
There should be a throttle slow down valve bolted to those 2 studs on the plenum (like later buses used) to slow the throttle down from closing on "over run" according to Ray. It's a California thing. As it is, a good chunk of the Cal only stuff is missing, and the 73's were the last version of the type 3 which is why that 70 belonging to your new friend's car looked simplified compared to your own car.
I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Those thin metal fuel vapor lines are probably rusted internally and do not pass any fumes. So the charcoal canister and expansion tank aren't actually doing anything. You could remove them and vent the tank to the atmosphere without too much of a guilty conscience.

Another leak source is the filler neck, and the thick filler rubber pip. The filler neck is vital in that with cracks the water and dirt that get thrown up find their way into the tank. Then they migrate to the low spot, which is your expensive fuel pump, which then rusts/wears out. Best to apply preventive measures!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

KTPhil and BobNotch:

thanks! Yes, thats helps quite a bit. I am waiting on a filler tube and the seal thing and ring from ISP, and then Jim is making me up a 73 stink kit, but hes waiting on a part to finish it up.

I figured a new gas cap and a sender seal might not be amiss either.

Jim had also suggested once I get that done, see if the smell persists, and if it is, then to redo the FI injector lines.

while im doing that I might as well do the injector seals and the runner seals too.

and since itll be accessible, the oil cooler seals.

(trying not to fall down the rabgbithole but I also dont want my car to catch on fire!)

I have a nice overfill canister and a redone charcoal canister left over from when I had a thing so I still might try it later on.

Where would they have put the overflow canister in the trunk if they had done such a thing?

On the drivers side , like a thing, or on the passenger side, like a Ghia? or someplace else?

If it would be cold enough up here for a gas heater, its cold enough to have the brine on the roads, and im not going to have this out on the roads then.

One thing im a bit puzzled on is I cant seem to find the "elbow macaroni" tin looking things, instead I have that tinfoil like stuff going to/from the shroud and the heater boxes.

which I think is why one of those vacuum hoses is just dangling.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
KTPhil and BobNotch:

I have a nice overfill canister and a redone charcoal canister left over from when I had a thing so I still might try it later on.

Where would they have put the overflow canister in the trunk if they had done such a thing?

On the drivers side , like a thing, or on the passenger side, like a Ghia? or someplace else?

If it would be cold enough up here for a gas heater, its cold enough to have the brine on the roads, and im not going to have this out on the roads then.

One thing im a bit puzzled on is I cant seem to find the "elbow macaroni" tin looking things, instead I have that tinfoil like stuff going to/from the shroud and the heater boxes.

which I think is why one of those vacuum hoses is just dangling.


No idea of what an overfill canister is on a type 3.

As for the "elbow macaroni" tin pieces, they're mainly for use with the stock muffler, as the elbows connect the fan outlets to the "pre-heaters" that are attached to the stock muffler (have a screw on connection). The hoses to the under rear load floor connect to the elbows too, which is why 1 hose is just hanging there. You can look in the Samba Classifieds and see if there's any in there, or contact Joel Mitchell (aka Boo-Koo-Z) and see if he has any.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Sorry bout that, I often "recycle" words unintentionally

Overfill: I meant the metal evaporative canister that is under the fender that the gas tank vent feeds to, but that you had said they left room in the trunk for with the possibility of a gas heater? where would the gas heater have gone?

Macaroni: got it, thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Grr..arrgh...im still waiting on one more piece to try and get rid of the stinky gas smell .. that and a day off from work.

I kindof like to have "extras" just in case, as type 3 stuff (well, vw stuff in general) is hard to come by up here.

I cant tell (and ive searched, but I cant visualize the differences right I guess)

would these fit a 73? the angles arent the best in the photos.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2541901

Ideally, id rather go with metal, but these are the only things I can find east of the rockies.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
Grr..arrgh...im still waiting on one more piece to try and get rid of the stinky gas smell .. that and a day off from work.

I kindof like to have "extras" just in case, as type 3 stuff (well, vw stuff in general) is hard to come by up here.

I cant tell (and ive searched, but I cant visualize the differences right I guess)

would these fit a 73? the angles arent the best in the photos.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2541901

Ideally, id rather go with metal, but these are the only things I can find east of the rockies.


70 thru 73 basically use the same front end sheet metal. The big difference is inside the trunk due to VW swapping the wiper sides and direction (70 being the last year they "parked" on the right). Also, starting in 71 VW added the fresh air box with 3 speed fan, this caused the big hump in the front trunk wall. The rear fenders can be swapped from 62 on, but the tail lights changed in 70. Needless to say, that 70 was a unique year, as some items on them were the last year they were used, and some items were the first year used. I'm not a big fiberglass fan, but those fenders will work on your car.
I hope this helps.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
I hope this helps.


Yes, that does. thanks! Also, boo koo Z did have all the stuff i could readily identify I needed for the exhaust/heat exchangers to work correctly (all the macaroni..he calls it that too..is on the way)

But, realistically right now the shipping is crazy high, the guy got quotes for 400 each for shipping. Maybe the fiberglass is heavier? Or the dimensions were enough to move it up a few brackets.

Theres alot more stuff Id rather/need to get for Tilda for my thousand bucks than fiberglass fenders that I dont actually need ATM.

When I still had a bus I had to send a Gherson Panel back from Maine to Florida, the slider door part back to the corner, and it was only like 20 bucks

BTW, since I will no doubt be asking many questions, I should point out I kindof have this weird time dilation thing going on. To me, theres "now.." and "the other day", so maybe it was like 15 years ago but I dont think so.

its an acquired "rocket induced cognitive deficit thing"

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

Shipping prices are crazy. Especially for large sheet metal pieces from the west coast. I had a pair of rear fenders for a Notch sent to me from the DDB (they've closed since then, and were in Oregon). I had Martin cut them in half and stick all of the pieces in the same box, just to save on shipping. It didn't really matter to me that they were cut in half, as I was changing the entire tail light assembly out for them to go on my 71 Notch (going early to late). I know it might have sounded crazy, but it's a case of doing whatever you have to sometimes. Kind of like driving 10 hours round trip to get a rear package tray for a T-34 Ghia. It's one of those I need it, so I might as well go get it. It probably would have cost 400 to ship it from the middle of Illinois, but while I was there, I picked up a front and rear window, plus got to BS with a fellow type 3er. Sometimes, that's what makes it worth doing the drive and picking it up in person. It's kind of like going to Canada just to pick up an early t-3 hood for a project. I mean it was only 20 miles away, but going thru customs on both sides of the border took an extra hour both ways. Rolling Eyes Granted it was a nice hood for 25 bucks US, and well worth picking up.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Yarkle
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Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: the Hills of Western Maine
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

I hear ya man, IF i could get ten days off of work, and my wife wouldnt kill me, id road trip for these in a heartbeat:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2504858

in New England, these would be like gold!

I gotta find a parts car or something. The guy I sold the buses to has hooked me up with some nice stuff to defray some of the costs, ill have to post up a few pix this weekend.

He did get me a pair of redone 73 front seats. they obviously werent done by a pro, but they are much better than I could do.

Hopefully I get the seals for the gas tank filler this week and i can tackle the stinky smell and maybe go for a ride on sunday
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=
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Yarkle
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Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: the Hills of Western Maine
Yarkle is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Tilda the Mustard Tigress Reply with quote

even for a parts car, this is the only type 3 i could find in a 1000 mile search on the craigslist.

"motor "was" running"

ok, not too bad

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


um..yeah, it is pretty bad

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um...really bad

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


it comes with extra doors and fenders that are in worse shape.

I can only imagine what the inner fenders n stuff look like

And he wants 3,000 for it!

Pass. Supply and demand i guess
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=
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